6 ms·

> Missing that was his crucial mistake, he could have made the donation anonymously, but decided to do it in his own name making it a given that this would be a

> Missing that was his crucial mistake, he could have made the donation anonymously, but decided to do it in his own name making it a given that this would be associated with Mozilla. That was stupid. So I guess this means no Mozilla leader should be making any private political donations at all, because if they do, Mozilla is at risk of losing half of its (US) leaders in red or blue states. I sure hope the employees still have jobs, and if not, they have vetted their new board & CEOs past donations. > Whether a proposition has a 50/50 split or not does not matter, if half your country is made up of bigots that doesn't mean that it isn't bigotry, it just means that you have a very large problem. Do those employees/volunteers feel equally strongly about their "bigoted" user base? Or are they more morally flexible since that directly impacts their incomes?

jacquesm 6y ago
> So I guess this means no Mozilla leader should be making any private political donations at all, because if they do, Mozilla is at risk of losing half of its (US) leaders in red or blue states. They can, but they had better think this through. Note that money in politics is a problem to begin with, and that your regular votes are anonymous. If you decide to do so in a public way on a controversial subject then you take a risk. > I sure hope the employees still have jobs, and if not, they have vetted their new board & CEOs past donations. Writing this from liberal Europe, the American stance against gay marriage is very puzzling, though even here in the EU there are countries where this sentiment is still alive. > Do those employees/volunteers feel equally strongly about their "bigoted" user base? They typically don't know. By advertising it the rules were changed, and that was optional. > Or are they more morally flexible since that directly impacts their incomes? How many of the HN folk are in the MIC? How many of them are against anything other than heterosexual relationships? How many of them are racists? We do not know. We do occasionally get a glimpse when someone deliberately or accidentally outs themselves as such and when they do so in the name of a company that tends to reflect badly on that company. Eich made his own bed and chose to walk rather than to lie in it. Personally I think the bigger problem with Mozilla/FireFox is the lack of focus and as long as that isn't addressed it does not matter who is in the wheelhouse the only thing that it will affect is the rate at which the ship is going down. The way things are going there won't be another Google payday for Mozilla because there won't be a FireFox userbase left.
- tomp 6y ago
  > Personally I think the bigger problem with Mozilla/FireFox is the lack of focus You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right? Promoting cancel culture (ousting Eich) isn't exactly focusing on tech. Generally you can only pick one or the other
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    No, there is no contradiction. The actions of the CEO and the actions of the employees are two entirely different things. The CEO could have been just focused on tech and could have left his political flags in the proverbial closet. Instead he chose to bring them out. Mozilla was already an entity that had made some pretty strong statements about diversity, inclusivity and their view of the open web. If you then stir up a shitstorm you will find you can no longer effectively focus on the tech either. So you can very well pick both: make all those statements, live by them, attract employees who see things likewise and then focus on the tech. But that's a glass house of your own making and if you then start hurling bricks it will have a terrible effect.
    - erik_seaberg 6y ago
      He wasn't CEO during the prop. 8 campaign. I don't think we want everyone in tech permanently abstaining from politics just in case there might be a leadership role years later.
      - jacquesm 6y ago
        It was close enough that it mattered, four years to be precise. If it had been decades ago it likely would have been a different matter. Dutch proverb: High trees catch a lot of wind. If you become a high tree, in politics or as a CEO then your past will come under scrutiny, and what is found there may very well have a direct effect on your present day life.
        FeepingCreature 6y ago
koolba 6y ago
> So I guess this means no Mozilla leader should be making any private political donations at all, because if they do, Mozilla is at risk of losing half of its (US) leaders in red or blue states. That's part and parcel the strategy of the left, shifting the Overton Window of what you're allowed to support publicly until anything representing traditional conservative values is safely out of range.
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  Trying to hold onto racism, misogyny, and homophobia as “traditional conservative values” is the problem here. There are plenty of conservatives that aren’t in that particular boat.
  - koolba 6y ago
    > Trying to hold onto racism, misogyny, and homophobia as “traditional conservative values” is the problem here. Repeatedly framing opposing views as "racist", "misogynist", "homophobic" is a perfect example of this. Let's not speak up lest we get labeled with one of those. I'm not aware of anything in this thread that has anything to do with race and yet that's the first word in the triumphant trio of your counters.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      > I'm not aware of anything in this thread that has anything to do with race and yet that's the first word in the triumphant trio of your counters. They tend to go together. I'll be happy to bet that a large fraction of the Eich defenders in this thread are just using him as a proxy because they sympathize with his viewpoints, and that you will find a disproportionally large overlap with the other viewpoints mentioned above.
      - FeepingCreature 6y ago
        They tend to go together because the left continuously lumps them together.
srtjstjsj 6y ago
No, only supporting the wrong opinions is career limiting. Supporting the opinions that are clearly correct is fine.

jacquesm 6y ago

> So I guess this means no Mozilla leader should be making any private political donations at all, because if they do, Mozilla is at risk of losing half of its (US) leaders in red or blue states. They can, but they had better think this through. Note that money in politics is a problem to begin with, and that your regular votes are anonymous. If you decide to do so in a public way on a controversial subject then you take a risk. > I sure hope the employees still have jobs, and if not, they have vetted their new board & CEOs past donations. Writing this from liberal Europe, the American stance against gay marriage is very puzzling, though even here in the EU there are countries where this sentiment is still alive. > Do those employees/volunteers feel equally strongly about their "bigoted" user base? They typically don't know. By advertising it the rules were changed, and that was optional. > Or are they more morally flexible since that directly impacts their incomes? How many of the HN folk are in the MIC? How many of them are against anything other than heterosexual relationships? How many of them are racists? We do not know. We do occasionally get a glimpse when someone deliberately or accidentally outs themselves as such and when they do so in the name of a company that tends to reflect badly on that company. Eich made his own bed and chose to walk rather than to lie in it. Personally I think the bigger problem with Mozilla/FireFox is the lack of focus and as long as that isn't addressed it does not matter who is in the wheelhouse the only thing that it will affect is the rate at which the ship is going down. The way things are going there won't be another Google payday for Mozilla because there won't be a FireFox userbase left.

tomp 6y ago
> Personally I think the bigger problem with Mozilla/FireFox is the lack of focus You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right? Promoting cancel culture (ousting Eich) isn't exactly focusing on tech. Generally you can only pick one or the other
- jacquesm 6y ago
  No, there is no contradiction. The actions of the CEO and the actions of the employees are two entirely different things. The CEO could have been just focused on tech and could have left his political flags in the proverbial closet. Instead he chose to bring them out. Mozilla was already an entity that had made some pretty strong statements about diversity, inclusivity and their view of the open web. If you then stir up a shitstorm you will find you can no longer effectively focus on the tech either. So you can very well pick both: make all those statements, live by them, attract employees who see things likewise and then focus on the tech. But that's a glass house of your own making and if you then start hurling bricks it will have a terrible effect.
  - erik_seaberg 6y ago
    He wasn't CEO during the prop. 8 campaign. I don't think we want everyone in tech permanently abstaining from politics just in case there might be a leadership role years later.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      It was close enough that it mattered, four years to be precise. If it had been decades ago it likely would have been a different matter. Dutch proverb: High trees catch a lot of wind. If you become a high tree, in politics or as a CEO then your past will come under scrutiny, and what is found there may very well have a direct effect on your present day life.
      - FeepingCreature 6y ago

koolba 6y ago

> So I guess this means no Mozilla leader should be making any private political donations at all, because if they do, Mozilla is at risk of losing half of its (US) leaders in red or blue states. That's part and parcel the strategy of the left, shifting the Overton Window of what you're allowed to support publicly until anything representing traditional conservative values is safely out of range.

amanaplanacanal 6y ago
Trying to hold onto racism, misogyny, and homophobia as “traditional conservative values” is the problem here. There are plenty of conservatives that aren’t in that particular boat.
- koolba 6y ago
  > Trying to hold onto racism, misogyny, and homophobia as “traditional conservative values” is the problem here. Repeatedly framing opposing views as "racist", "misogynist", "homophobic" is a perfect example of this. Let's not speak up lest we get labeled with one of those. I'm not aware of anything in this thread that has anything to do with race and yet that's the first word in the triumphant trio of your counters.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    > I'm not aware of anything in this thread that has anything to do with race and yet that's the first word in the triumphant trio of your counters. They tend to go together. I'll be happy to bet that a large fraction of the Eich defenders in this thread are just using him as a proxy because they sympathize with his viewpoints, and that you will find a disproportionally large overlap with the other viewpoints mentioned above.
    - FeepingCreature 6y ago
      They tend to go together because the left continuously lumps them together.

srtjstjsj 6y ago

No, only supporting the wrong opinions is career limiting. Supporting the opinions that are clearly correct is fine.