21 ms·

Try Svelte

50 points by marcradziwill 6y ago

wokwokwok 6y ago
Accept cookies, or settings? Hm... > For an optimal website experience, I use cookies and similar technologies (also from third parties) for statistics and tracking purposes. By clicking on By 'accept cookies', you consent to me accepting the use of these technologies. > Via "Settings" you get more information and can read the declaration of consent. > Without consent, I use only technically necessary cookies or cookies for statistical purposes. “Technically necessary cookies” ... do you imagine you have readers dumb enough to believe that’s a thing? Why do you even bother to ask? Oh well. Anyway, yeah, svelte is pretty interesting, but this post is 8 months old yeah? What’s new in svelte land since then?
- mlatu 6y ago
  Also, you click on 'Settings', and then what? There's no way to accept the settings. I mean in case I wanted to. What about the 'Accept' button then? What does it do? Accept ALL cookies? No thank you. 0/10
- theobeers 6y ago
  Two newer developments are official support for TypeScript, and a nice VS Code extension using the language server. Those advances are what enticed me to give Svelte a try over the summer.
- have_faith 6y ago
  > What’s new in svelte land since then? First class TypeScript support is the big one.
- Semaphor 6y ago
  > “Technically necessary cookies” That is a thing under GDPR. In this case, they store if you consent or not. Of course, this is another example of a non-compliant site as accepting is easier than rejecting. The site owner might as well remove the gate completely.
mastazi 6y ago
Not sure if my browser is acting up but I don’t want to accept all cookies and when I click on the other option, “settings”, there is no “save” button so I can never get on to the article I was planning to read.
- stonekyx 6y ago
  Exactly. I tried to go back with browser's Back button, and the annoying dialog comes up again.. So effectively the only option is to accept their cookies.
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    I know it's not really the point here, but a workaround: use Private Browsing/Incognito and accept the cookies from there. They'll disappear when you finish your session.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
      But this is a technical author blogging for other techies, such hacks shouldn't be necessary in the first place.
    - Macha 6y ago
      I'm always worried that a site will treat that as acceptance of fingerprinting and then treat that as consent when they see my browser/IP again in non private browsing.
      - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
        Interesting idea, I wonder if any sites do this.
  - dbrgn 6y ago
    You can also just delete the modal cookie dialog in the inspector toolbar.
capableweb 6y ago
Off topic but it's interesting how many people get the cookie consent thing wrong. Not only can't you decline to use analytics cookies, the page loads analytics.js before you even accepted it, so the cookie consent popup is literally done just to be in the way, not for actually asking for consent... Edit: only way you can not accept the tracking cookies is by first accepting the cookies, then manually going to https://marcradziwill.com/cookie-settings/ https://marcradziwill.com/cookie-settings/ and uncheck it. Even if you uncheck it, site will still load Google Analytics. Hurray for the world wide web. Hint for people who actually care about privacy: if you're asking for consent about storing tracking cookies, you're not caring about privacy in the first place. Use server-side tracking if you really have too, and put everything client-side tracking on fire.
- kreetx 6y ago
  Or have uBlock Origin on. And since this is a login-not-required site how are the other cookies "technically required"?
  - petercooper 6y ago
    Or have uBlock Origin on. I was using its feature that gets rid of cookie/GDPR permission boxes but encountered numerous pages which prevent any scrolling or interaction with page elements.. I was confused for a bit until I noticed uBlock was hiding these approval boxes but was keeping the page locked as if I hadn't yet approved them. Reluctantly I've turned off this feature and am back in GDPR box hell again.
  - jve 6y ago
    Cookie consent setting page stores 2 reasons for technical cookies: > Stores the information as to whether the user agrees to statistical analyzes or rejects them > Stores the information as to whether the user agrees to cookies or rejects them As for what @capableweb said, did they update something or what? Before consenting to cookies I CAN actually open settings and... analytics cookie by default was disabled for me.
    - 6y ago
dgellow 6y ago
I recently experimented a bit with Svelte + TypeScript for Electron applications. When doing so I wrote down my notes in the form of a project tutorial: https://sam.elborai.me/blog/electron-svelte-3-typescript-part-1 https://sam.elborai.me/blog/electron-svelte-3-typescript-par.... That may be of interest for some of you who would like to try Svelte.
- hatch_q 6y ago
  Are there type definitions available for svelte?
  - Ciantic 6y ago
    Yes. Svelte 3 is built with TypeScript in mind. Although since it was not originally built with that in mind it might still have some janky stuff, like some refactoring does not work.
  - dgellow 6y ago
    Yep! The simplest way to get a typescript setup is via https://github.com/sveltejs/template https://github.com/sveltejs/template. $ npx degit sveltejs/template svelte-app $ cd svelte-app $ node scripts/setupTypeScript.js $ npm install $ npm run dev Then you're good to go. When you define a <script></script> block in a Svelte file, just be sure to specify the attribute lang="ts". In VSCode with the svelte extension you get intellisense based on types info. <script lang="ts"> let name: string </script> <input bind:value={name} />
yuchi 6y ago
Yo, React fanboy nitpicking missteps in the article here, so keep that in mind while reading this comment. > All browsers love plain JavaScript or Vanilla JavScript because this highly efficient code can be parsed and executed faster than any other. Because it is plain JavaScript, your code changes the DOM directly. Svelte does not need a virtual DOM to simulate fast updates to the user. Slow down. We all deploy plain JavaScript, no browser supports any other language. Improving parsing and execution (at language level) bring very little improvement with Svelte over (for example) React. On the other hand, the absence of library functions to call may indeed flatten the call stack and give the perf boost promised by Svelte, but this requires Svelte to not being a library at all (more on that later). This is also wording issue. It should have started with «the browser, mostly built around imperative structures, loves direct imperative changes to the DOM, and that’s how you MUST build the most efficient app interactions». > At deployment, you get vanilla JS, that running in your browser. Fast and plain JavaScript Again, wording! > Apps developed are highly compatible. For example, if you develop a timer in Svelte, you can use the compiled version of your widget in any other framework. Why? Take a look at No. 1 it is VanillaJS. (Point n. 1 being the previous quote) This is not correct, or at least misleading. Every `.svelte` does indeed export an autonomous class that can be instantiated directly and mounted to a `target` DOM node, but that’s because Svelte is “embedded” inside the class. In React you _can_ export a function which given a target DOM node mounts the app through `ReactDOM.render()` without the caller needing to have access to ReactDOM, it’s just not how you use components. I have to admit that having that approach baked-in can be useful. > The maintainers are free in their choice of the features they want to include in the framework. As Svelte itself is not in the compiled JavaScript output […] I don’t remeber who said that but I once found this gem: «The most fantastic trick C has ever done is making everyone believe that it has no runtime». That’s the same topic here, that’s because Svelte has a non-zero amount of shared code. Yes mostly utilities, but yet… it is shipped with yout code! Listen, we all agree that they smartly moved a considerable amount of logic from the run-time to the build-time and we all rejoyce at this awesome competition, but this article is overlooking at how much is still happening behind the scene and how much code is still placed in the compiled output. - - - One final note: I know that Suspense is now a running joke in the JS world and I’m just making fun of myself here, but I really want to see how Vue and Svelte will compare to the ergonomics the new concurrency features when they’ll land in React.
manojlds 6y ago
Hope links like this are flagged as it's not just about the content but also abut how the content is presented.
- spuz 6y ago
  What is wrong with how the content is presented?
  - matsemann 6y ago
    It's inaccessible behind a popup that doesn't work. And all comments now are discussing that instead of the article.
xellisx 6y ago
I noticed Aurelia isn't getting any love when pushing for TypeScript.

50 points by marcradziwill 6y ago

Accept cookies, or settings? Hm... > For an optimal website experience, I use cookies and similar technologies (also from third parties) for statistics and tracking purposes. By clicking on By 'accept cookies', you consent to me accepting the use of these technologies. > Via "Settings" you get more information and can read the declaration of consent. > Without consent, I use only technically necessary cookies or cookies for statistical purposes. “Technically necessary cookies” ... do you imagine you have readers dumb enough to believe that’s a thing? Why do you even bother to ask? Oh well. Anyway, yeah, svelte is pretty interesting, but this post is 8 months old yeah? What’s new in svelte land since then?

mlatu 6y ago
Also, you click on 'Settings', and then what? There's no way to accept the settings. I mean in case I wanted to. What about the 'Accept' button then? What does it do? Accept ALL cookies? No thank you. 0/10
theobeers 6y ago
Two newer developments are official support for TypeScript, and a nice VS Code extension using the language server. Those advances are what enticed me to give Svelte a try over the summer.
have_faith 6y ago
> What’s new in svelte land since then? First class TypeScript support is the big one.
Semaphor 6y ago
> “Technically necessary cookies” That is a thing under GDPR. In this case, they store if you consent or not. Of course, this is another example of a non-compliant site as accepting is easier than rejecting. The site owner might as well remove the gate completely.

mastazi 6y ago

Not sure if my browser is acting up but I don’t want to accept all cookies and when I click on the other option, “settings”, there is no “save” button so I can never get on to the article I was planning to read.

stonekyx 6y ago
Exactly. I tried to go back with browser's Back button, and the annoying dialog comes up again.. So effectively the only option is to accept their cookies.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  I know it's not really the point here, but a workaround: use Private Browsing/Incognito and accept the cookies from there. They'll disappear when you finish your session.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    But this is a technical author blogging for other techies, such hacks shouldn't be necessary in the first place.
  - Macha 6y ago
    I'm always worried that a site will treat that as acceptance of fingerprinting and then treat that as consent when they see my browser/IP again in non private browsing.
    - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
      Interesting idea, I wonder if any sites do this.
- dbrgn 6y ago
  You can also just delete the modal cookie dialog in the inspector toolbar.

capableweb 6y ago

Off topic but it's interesting how many people get the cookie consent thing wrong. Not only can't you decline to use analytics cookies, the page loads analytics.js before you even accepted it, so the cookie consent popup is literally done just to be in the way, not for actually asking for consent... Edit: only way you can not accept the tracking cookies is by first accepting the cookies, then manually going to https://marcradziwill.com/cookie-settings/ https://marcradziwill.com/cookie-settings/ and uncheck it. Even if you uncheck it, site will still load Google Analytics. Hurray for the world wide web. Hint for people who actually care about privacy: if you're asking for consent about storing tracking cookies, you're not caring about privacy in the first place. Use server-side tracking if you really have too, and put everything client-side tracking on fire.

kreetx 6y ago
Or have uBlock Origin on. And since this is a login-not-required site how are the other cookies "technically required"?
- petercooper 6y ago
  Or have uBlock Origin on. I was using its feature that gets rid of cookie/GDPR permission boxes but encountered numerous pages which prevent any scrolling or interaction with page elements.. I was confused for a bit until I noticed uBlock was hiding these approval boxes but was keeping the page locked as if I hadn't yet approved them. Reluctantly I've turned off this feature and am back in GDPR box hell again.
- jve 6y ago
  Cookie consent setting page stores 2 reasons for technical cookies: > Stores the information as to whether the user agrees to statistical analyzes or rejects them > Stores the information as to whether the user agrees to cookies or rejects them As for what @capableweb said, did they update something or what? Before consenting to cookies I CAN actually open settings and... analytics cookie by default was disabled for me.
  - 6y ago

dgellow 6y ago

I recently experimented a bit with Svelte + TypeScript for Electron applications. When doing so I wrote down my notes in the form of a project tutorial: https://sam.elborai.me/blog/electron-svelte-3-typescript-part-1 https://sam.elborai.me/blog/electron-svelte-3-typescript-par.... That may be of interest for some of you who would like to try Svelte.

hatch_q 6y ago
Are there type definitions available for svelte?
- Ciantic 6y ago
  Yes. Svelte 3 is built with TypeScript in mind. Although since it was not originally built with that in mind it might still have some janky stuff, like some refactoring does not work.
- dgellow 6y ago
  Yep! The simplest way to get a typescript setup is via https://github.com/sveltejs/template https://github.com/sveltejs/template. $ npx degit sveltejs/template svelte-app $ cd svelte-app $ node scripts/setupTypeScript.js $ npm install $ npm run dev Then you're good to go. When you define a <script></script> block in a Svelte file, just be sure to specify the attribute lang="ts". In VSCode with the svelte extension you get intellisense based on types info. <script lang="ts"> let name: string </script> <input bind:value={name} />

yuchi 6y ago

Yo, React fanboy nitpicking missteps in the article here, so keep that in mind while reading this comment. > All browsers love plain JavaScript or Vanilla JavScript because this highly efficient code can be parsed and executed faster than any other. Because it is plain JavaScript, your code changes the DOM directly. Svelte does not need a virtual DOM to simulate fast updates to the user. Slow down. We all deploy plain JavaScript, no browser supports any other language. Improving parsing and execution (at language level) bring very little improvement with Svelte over (for example) React. On the other hand, the absence of library functions to call may indeed flatten the call stack and give the perf boost promised by Svelte, but this requires Svelte to not being a library at all (more on that later). This is also wording issue. It should have started with «the browser, mostly built around imperative structures, loves direct imperative changes to the DOM, and that’s how you MUST build the most efficient app interactions». > At deployment, you get vanilla JS, that running in your browser. Fast and plain JavaScript Again, wording! > Apps developed are highly compatible. For example, if you develop a timer in Svelte, you can use the compiled version of your widget in any other framework. Why? Take a look at No. 1 it is VanillaJS. (Point n. 1 being the previous quote) This is not correct, or at least misleading. Every `.svelte` does indeed export an autonomous class that can be instantiated directly and mounted to a `target` DOM node, but that’s because Svelte is “embedded” inside the class. In React you _can_ export a function which given a target DOM node mounts the app through `ReactDOM.render()` without the caller needing to have access to ReactDOM, it’s just not how you use components. I have to admit that having that approach baked-in can be useful. > The maintainers are free in their choice of the features they want to include in the framework. As Svelte itself is not in the compiled JavaScript output […] I don’t remeber who said that but I once found this gem: «The most fantastic trick C has ever done is making everyone believe that it has no runtime». That’s the same topic here, that’s because Svelte has a non-zero amount of shared code. Yes mostly utilities, but yet… it is shipped with yout code! Listen, we all agree that they smartly moved a considerable amount of logic from the run-time to the build-time and we all rejoyce at this awesome competition, but this article is overlooking at how much is still happening behind the scene and how much code is still placed in the compiled output. - - - One final note: I know that Suspense is now a running joke in the JS world and I’m just making fun of myself here, but I really want to see how Vue and Svelte will compare to the ergonomics the new concurrency features when they’ll land in React.

manojlds 6y ago

Hope links like this are flagged as it's not just about the content but also abut how the content is presented.

spuz 6y ago
What is wrong with how the content is presented?
- matsemann 6y ago
  It's inaccessible behind a popup that doesn't work. And all comments now are discussing that instead of the article.

xellisx 6y ago

I noticed Aurelia isn't getting any love when pushing for TypeScript.