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My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me
by closeparen 6y ago
My life got a lot better after I stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others. I really don’t want to go out for drinks after work. But this preference is nothing compared to how much I value the friendships that come from doing it. Hiking a mountain is not in the top 100 things I want to do with my weekend. But a shared experience with a group of people is something I need deep in my soul.
Human connection is the preference that weighs many times more than all the others combined. Prioritizing my own inane sense of self rather than adopting behaviors that could enable relationships was just idiotic self-torture.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- therealx 6y agoVery well put. I feel this is hard to convey to someone, even though it's plainly obvious when they are deep in it. You have to have those moments of really wondering what is important to get there.
- kome 6y agobeautifully written. Indeed my problem is the contrary to the one in the article "How to say yes, for people closed in themselves who always say no."
- unabst 6y agoSo to put them together: people who say no too much are self-tortured, and people who say yes too much are tortured by others. Learning to say yes sounds great, but you're on the path to becoming a people pleaser. And people pleasers who listen to NPR and learn to say no are now on the path to... prioritizing themselves over relationships and self-torture. This can't be right. How do we not torture ourselves?
- numpad0 6y agoOversimplification: to live is to suffer
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- cutemonster 6y agoToo much, or too little, both can be bad. Also in other areas, like, eating or working out
- powersnail 6y agoI have found the middle ground of turning down an activity I don’t like and propose something else at a different time, something both of us would enjoy. Obviously not everything can be solved by this; but it works well for the human connections I value the most.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Kiro 6y agoI've done the opposite. I used to do a lot of stuff I didn't want to just because it was a social norm I was afraid to break. I thought I valued the friendships so much that it was worth it but it made my life a misery. I've realized that social relationships are simply not that important to me.
- the-dude 6y agoThat is not what he is saying at all. edit: And you are editting your comment without acknowledging it. Not cool, especially when there are replies.
- hectorlorenzo 6y agoHe is not afraid to break these social norms either.
- Kiro 6y agoI started editing the comment before I knew it had replies. The meaning should be the same since I just elaborated on it. What was your comment referring to?
- apples_oranges 6y agoGreat comment. I would add that this ties in with goal setting, which is an activity where you set the priorities for your life. If it's fitness for example you will skip the drinks and go to the gym instead. If it's money you will work on your business and so forth. You decided it's social connections, but it will be different for everyone. It's important to sit down and decide what we want out of life, imho.
- Loughla 6y ago>It's important to sit down and decide what we want out of life I always get my hair up with this kind of statement. How do your goals look? Because the only goals I have are: a) not be homeless, b) not have my family die, and c) figure out how to have someone give me ten million dollars so I can stop coming to work. People who have specific, 'work-ish' goals in their personal lives sort of weird me out. I don't know why. Something, something Maugham's The Razor's Edge.
- jasode 6y ago>How do your goals look? Because the only goals I have are: a) not be homeless, b) not have my family die, and c) [...] >People who have specific, 'work-ish' goals in their personal lives sort of weird me out. I'm genuinely confused as to what actually bothers you about "work-ish" goals. As another example, I used to have a boring (but very high paying) business consulting job. I hated getting on an airplane every single week to write another soul-crushing MS Word report and Powerpoint presentation. I absolutely had to get out of that type of work or I was going to go insane. Therefore, I used my free time to study web technologies and iOS/Android programming. My "goal" was to reinvent myself to do something else so I could switch to a more enjoyable job or create a startup. I'm forced to use my personal time because my day job had nothing to do with web/mobile technologies. To tie this back to the gp's comment, drinking beers after work with my colleagues at the business consulting job was not a good use of my personal time because it conflicted with how I wanted to change my life for the better. Using your framework of "not be homeless" and living with the constraint that I don't have a rich uncle to leave me with a $10 million inheritance... what "non-workish" goal should I pursue to build a better life? Or should I just let things "just happen" to me? EDIT to reply to: ">simple alternative: savings to take 12 months off without becoming homeless. Use the first six months to build the knowledge Proposing an alternative training schedule doesn't address the crux of the problem I was responding to. The gp is weirded out by people having "work-ish" goals in their personal lives. Therefore, me quitting my job for a year to train my self will still be labeled as having a "work-ish" goal in my free and personal time.
- cheschire 6y agoWhat has your recent experience been as these opportunities arise in the face of COVID? How does the potential for danger in even mundane social gatherings affect your decision now? In the last 18 months I came to the same conclusion as you and started socializing more, but then COVID happened and then quarantine and while the rest of my office rushes back to doing team lunches and whatnot, I find myself hesitating. I know the value, but I recognize there's a risk. edit: LOL someone downvoted this post. Was there something offensive in my question? Something incorrect or illogical? Did I mislead or misconstrue or say something needlessly political?
- berdario 6y agoI wish there were actually opportunities in my life. My office is still closed, I tried to have a reunion with university mates in my home country (I always meet them when I travel back to my birthplace), but 3 out of 4 of them bailed out. I tried to reach out to other friends, but (except one or two) they are also opting out of meeting anyone for the foreseeable future. I'd obviously try to play it safe: meet the others at a distance, wearing masks, etc. It seems that most people who are shying away from meeting friends are those who cohabitate, which makes it even more frustrating to those of us who aren't :/
- cheschire 6y agoI had a similar situation, but the reunion-esque meetup functioned adequately over slack instead. It's definitely not the same, but we figured everyone sitting 1.5 meters apart at a bar isn't the same either and also not very conducive to socializing.
- smoe 6y agoWhat I started doing during the 5 month lockdown in Bogotá is going for extended walks every day and convinced friends/coworkers and some dates to join. Less risk than meeting indoors and free so it is easier for those who lost their job or have reduced salary to do something. That said, many people I would meet on a regular basis before, I haven't seen in person since it started. E.g. because they moved out of the citg for the time being or are taking care of their parents and don't want to take risk. With those we started having semi regular group videocalls just chatting to a glass of wine or beer. Not ideal but it did had the upside to connect more to people living elsewhere I interacted less with before the Pandemic.
- watwut 6y agoI used to do this. But it lead to one sided relationships where I was not equal party. I liked people more then they liked me and while I would say yes for sake of relationship, the favor was rarely returned. These relationships were contingent on me being passive and having no preference. I was liked, but did not had real friends (as I found out later).
- cutemonster 6y agoHow did you find out? What happened after that? I think somehow somewhere there're real friends for you to find. Possibly simpler to find if you do new unusual things you didn't try before? Or maybe try a different city or country (if work allows)
- watwut 6y ago> How did you find out? Nothing overly dramatic happened. Basically people dropped out of my life whenever small change happened, because while I was pleasant to be around, I was not worth any additional effort no matter how tiny. And I realized that I am never getting my preference. When I asked for my needs or wants, I never got it and people around me disproportionally did not liked it. They liked "yes" me, but as if me suddenly wanting something of saying no crossed unspoken lines. (I am 100% sure I was not impolite or aggressive or too pushy.) When I wanted to do things I actually wanted to do, I needed to do them alone anyway. And since I subconsciously equated "yes" with "I care for relationship" or basically duty, I was afraid to organize things and have people not come (cause not coming stung more then it should). > What happened after that? Basically, I make sure that I am not "yes" person by the start of relationship to not get myself framed that way. And when I have a choice, I socialize with people who accept my right to say no or who are willing to compromise without punishing me in some way.
- csharptwdec19 6y agoYou and I are in similar spots. I was in a relationship where the other party was only happy if I was passive or a doormat. It's a bad thing to get into, because you come out the other end forgetting parts of the 'real' you if you do it too long
- smoe 6y agoThis is one of the main reasons why I prefer living in big cities. Compared to other places I've stayed, it makes it a whole lot easier to build and maintain human connections with people whose preferences and interests overlap with mine. I also do plenty of activities I'm not really interested in for the sake of socializing. But always just adopting to whatever is most popular at a given time would be soulcrushing to me.
- cpach 6y agoI hear ya. Very well stated. I think that the reasons you just stated is why I’m having a hard time adapting after moving from the big city to the small town.
- Dahoon 6y agoI have the excact opposite experience. The closer you live, the more people protect their privacy sphere around them and more often avoid real connections with people they run into, like neighbors. After we moved from living close in the city to outside the city limits, with way more space around us, we went from "hello" when meeting a neighbor to now stopping up and talking for real and taking a real interest in eachother, helping eachother out, etc.
- pawelk 6y agoThis is very similar to my experience. I moved from an apartment complex in a city, where everyone was - and wanted to be - anonymous to a village, where people are way more open and genuinely interested in each other. Quality over quantity. Stopping by for a chat, coffee or beer, joining for a walk or bicycle ride, helping out or asking for help etc is something natural here, while in the city would have to be arranged days in advance.
- smoe 6y agoI agree that in smaller places such interactions happen more organically. But you are still bound to who happens to live in the vicinity. In the big city I do have less interactions with neighbors, but on the other hand, whatever my interest is and however fringe, I will find likeminded people. I reckon it depends a lot on how far away your interests are from the norm as well as which and what part of the city you are living. The neighborhood I'm in, people do spent quite a lot of time in the corner cafes, restaurants and park and are open to make new friends, instead of just leaving the apartment to go to work.
- frankie_t 6y ago>stopped considering questions in terms of my own preferences and started considering them in terms of how they would connect me to others Feeling connection to others is one of your own preferences, ultimately you act in your own interest anyway. The tricky part for me is to evaluate my preferences when they are in conflict and choose what is optimal.
- bumby 6y agoMaybe it’s about optimizing for long-term fulfillment vs. short-term happiness?
- onlyfa1r00 6y agoThis is why I became a consultant. Paulo Freire writes of the oppressed being expected to import others in order to be included. IMO our society could stand to demand less recognition of emotional demands of distant elites and landlords. Americans are insanely entitled social police. I’m all about lifting quality of life for the bottom at the expense of the top, cause let’s be real: it isn’t Elon or Gates literally conjuring those ideas and doing the work. Somehow billions have been convinced to sign over the bulk of their value generation to people they don’t know. Here’s a rich guy give him more money forever! is the new “belief” model. How do I avoid adopting that belief behavior? Not meaning the literal trade, but the whole “accept that the rich are legally allowed to grift on collective effort”. Behavior is constrained artificially for consistency. Because behavior is being managed by statistics and math is artificially constrained for consistency.
- citrate05 6y agoThe point of the article isn’t to never do anything someone else suggests. It’s to get you out of the habit of reflexively agreeing to do other people favors out of anxiety, guilt, or a sense of obligation. If you’ve said “yes” to every request that crossed your desk, you’re probably not going to be left with much time to go out for drinks or to go climb a mountain with your friends. What you’re describing is more of a tension between going with your immediate emotional response (feeling annoyed that you have to expend some effort) versus your values (connecting with other people; other examples might be creating something, or leaving a positive legacy). That’s actually pretty congruent with the message of this piece. People who are habitual people-pleasers tend to let their initial emotional response of guilt or anxiety win over their values. The immediate outcomes may be different (over- vs. undercommitting), but the long term outcome in both cases is feeling like you’re living a life without much meaning or purpose.
- plorkyeran 6y agoImportantly, if you don't reflexively say "yes" whenever someone asks you to do something, the article is not advice for you.