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OK, systemic inequality and systems manipulated by the wealthy (The details of the stolen items is sadly entertaining). Is the world moving in a direction of mo

by dpflan 6y ago

OK, systemic inequality and systems manipulated by the wealthy (The details of the stolen items is sadly entertaining). Is the world moving in a direction of more of this or less of this? I’m genuinely curious about how society will change in the next decade: the internet is a double edged sword allowing near instant sharing of information that can change one’s understanding and beliefs very quickly. We see the negative edge of the sword slicing through society, dividing it into polarized groups. We see the positive edge cutting away at deception and illuminating discrepancies. I can’t see what is happening in societal change at the macro level, what should I be reading or looking at?

strikelaserclaw 6y ago
I would say the average person has more chance at justice today than at any other time in history. I think for your last question, it really depends on if you are an optimist or pessimist about humanity in general, i for one think humanity will move forward in a positive way eventually.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  My feeling is this is true for the legal system but there seems to be rising inequality due to entirely legal causes.
  - drivebycomment 6y ago
    Another equally valid hypothesis would be that people have better information and thus to fight these more, and also these get noticed more than before. It is also possible that the absolute number of such cases have gone up despite the rate per capita has gone down, given the population growth. Unless someone does a careful analysis, we just can't determine the frequency based on anecdotal evidence.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Perhaps. But it’s still pretty bad in many cases.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Go back far enough, and whole masses in Europe were legally bound to their land, hardly people at all in terms of law or culture. They could not marry without their lords permission, would change hands with the land, and would legally become a fugitive if they left the land without permission. Human history is really bad on the whole, even the bad parts that exist today are often less mild or less common than what preceded our current era.
  - Ar-Curunir 6y ago
    Go back further, and that's not the case.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Prior to that you’ve got the massive slave states of the Roman Empire or various Greek poleis, plus the mass killings of various wars causes by different empires in different times and places. Do recall that the Mongols killed 11% of the world’s population. And even with the collapse of some of these slave states and massive empires, the resulting chaos and uncertainty drove the population into the exact same feudal arrangements that I described before. If you want to go back further, it’s estimated that 40-50% of adult fatalities in hunter gatherer societies were caused by murder, based off of historical evidence and study of modern hunter gatherer population. There really aren’t that many eras you can point to that are really much better than the present for a typical human being. There are plenty of times that are better for the kind of person who writes history books, but that is a very different proposition.
      - bollu 6y ago
        Where can I read more about murder in hunter gatherer societies? That sounds fascinating
        ashtonkem 6y ago
        I can’t recall where I read that 40% number, unfortunately. And boiling such a wide range of social experiences down to a single number is eventually going to get me in a lot of trouble with anthropologists. Here’s a decent breakdown of the evidence for various state and non-state ancient societies[0]. Obviously there is some significant overlap between state and non-state societies, but in general the violent death rate in ancient societies is really high compared to even the 1800s, an era we consider violent by modern standards. 0: https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-evidence-on-violent-deaths https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-e...
NicolasGorden 6y ago
I'll re-iterate what strikelaserclaw said and add: maybe looking at it on a 10 year basis is too short? Humans have now about 20-30 year generations, so I think it's fair to judge our progress as a species in at least multiples of this. I'm in my mid 30's and kids these days are way nicer to each other than they were when I was a kid. Bullying, making fun of kids of silly differences, etc is way down. I think the future long term, and in a two step forward one step back kind of way, is going to be better than it is now.

by dpflan 6y ago

strikelaserclaw 6y ago

I would say the average person has more chance at justice today than at any other time in history. I think for your last question, it really depends on if you are an optimist or pessimist about humanity in general, i for one think humanity will move forward in a positive way eventually.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
My feeling is this is true for the legal system but there seems to be rising inequality due to entirely legal causes.
- drivebycomment 6y ago
  Another equally valid hypothesis would be that people have better information and thus to fight these more, and also these get noticed more than before. It is also possible that the absolute number of such cases have gone up despite the rate per capita has gone down, given the population growth. Unless someone does a careful analysis, we just can't determine the frequency based on anecdotal evidence.
saagarjha 6y ago
Perhaps. But it’s still pretty bad in many cases.
ashtonkem 6y ago
Go back far enough, and whole masses in Europe were legally bound to their land, hardly people at all in terms of law or culture. They could not marry without their lords permission, would change hands with the land, and would legally become a fugitive if they left the land without permission. Human history is really bad on the whole, even the bad parts that exist today are often less mild or less common than what preceded our current era.
- Ar-Curunir 6y ago
  Go back further, and that's not the case.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Prior to that you’ve got the massive slave states of the Roman Empire or various Greek poleis, plus the mass killings of various wars causes by different empires in different times and places. Do recall that the Mongols killed 11% of the world’s population. And even with the collapse of some of these slave states and massive empires, the resulting chaos and uncertainty drove the population into the exact same feudal arrangements that I described before. If you want to go back further, it’s estimated that 40-50% of adult fatalities in hunter gatherer societies were caused by murder, based off of historical evidence and study of modern hunter gatherer population. There really aren’t that many eras you can point to that are really much better than the present for a typical human being. There are plenty of times that are better for the kind of person who writes history books, but that is a very different proposition.
    - bollu 6y ago
      Where can I read more about murder in hunter gatherer societies? That sounds fascinating
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        I can’t recall where I read that 40% number, unfortunately. And boiling such a wide range of social experiences down to a single number is eventually going to get me in a lot of trouble with anthropologists. Here’s a decent breakdown of the evidence for various state and non-state ancient societies[0]. Obviously there is some significant overlap between state and non-state societies, but in general the violent death rate in ancient societies is really high compared to even the 1800s, an era we consider violent by modern standards. 0: https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-evidence-on-violent-deaths https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-e...

NicolasGorden 6y ago

I'll re-iterate what strikelaserclaw said and add: maybe looking at it on a 10 year basis is too short? Humans have now about 20-30 year generations, so I think it's fair to judge our progress as a species in at least multiples of this. I'm in my mid 30's and kids these days are way nicer to each other than they were when I was a kid. Bullying, making fun of kids of silly differences, etc is way down. I think the future long term, and in a two step forward one step back kind of way, is going to be better than it is now.