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I'd be more interested in VSCode if Microsoft's strategy was to relentlessly implement the most popular plugins into VSCode natively such that the most commonly

I'd be more interested in VSCode if Microsoft's strategy was to relentlessly implement the most popular plugins into VSCode natively such that the most commonly used and needed functions were built in and did not require plugins. The problem with systems that are really just frameworks for other to build on is they become reluctant to build stuff that plugins exist for. The philosophy becomes to depend on the plugins rather than built out needed features. This entrenches the spaghetti pile of plugins. Plugins are great and necessary - Jetbrains IDEs have plugins. The difference is a philosophical one - are plugins there to provide core functionality, or are they there to provide uncommon use cases? VSCode uses plugins for basics, JetBrains builds basics in - with JetBrains you can never install a plugin and happily work away. With VSCode, the very first task you must carry out is to start managing your inventory of plugins.

SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
Or, better yet, to re-implement the best plugins as installed by default plugins that could then be enabled/disabled by the user.
jcrben 6y ago
No way, it sucks when you've got a monolith full of unnecessary gadgetry. Right now VSCode is already getting pretty bloated w/ builtins
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  I could not understand why anyone would be happy if VSCode came with 50 core un-installable plugins and none of them were useful to you, since everyone has slightly different projects they're working on. It would be inefficient and it wouldn't cater to a larger user base.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    There's a happy middle ground that far too projects choose: building a modularized system, but distributing core, currated plugins with the system. Effectively, I don't care if I receive a batteries-included product where the batteries are pre-installed and on-demand loaded, vs one where they're permanently installed.
moron4hire 6y ago
>> I'd be more interested in VSCode if Microsoft's strategy was to relentlessly implement the most popular plugins into VSCode natively such that the most commonly used and needed functions were built in and did not require plugins. Unlike the FANG companies, Microsoft doesn't tend to rip the carpet out from under independent developers like that.
- huffmsa 6y ago
  Right, but they would. Plugins aren't paid right now, so all I'd think it would take would be Microsoft saying "hey, people like your plugin, we'll pay you to maintain it, and if you don't want to maintain it, we'll inhouse it." To avoid left-pad situations
  - moron4hire 6y ago
    I don't know about VS Code, but in native VS, there are lots of paid plugins. There just isn't a store. You buy the plugins from the developers.
- Eremotherium 6y ago
  >Unlike the FANG companies, Microsoft doesn't tend to rip the carpet out from under independent developers like that. No, they roll them into the carpet and sodomize them like they did with Keivan Beigi and at most just sheepishly say sorry after some public outcry.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  Wasn’t there recently a thread were Microsoft interviewed someone that has a third party dev tool, declined to hire him and then recreated the same tool with almost the same name without acknowledgement?
  - moron4hire 6y ago
    You mean the app that he named almost the same name as another, long-existing Microsoft product? (NuGet) It's not like AppGet was developed in a vacuum. And it's definitely nowhere near the situation like Facebook cloning Virtual Desktop, threatening to crush the original developer if he didn't join them, and naming it the exact same thing.
syshum 6y ago
This is the difference between an opinionated vs non-opinionated IDE You seem to prefer opinionated, where other people like the fact they can pick and choose from various plugins to my their IDE their own, and if they do not like the default implementation of a feature there likely is another plugin that may work for them. For example there are a couple of git plugins, all of them act slighty different based on the workflow of the users of that plugin, if MS came in and said "No this is how git workflow is in VSCode and no other way is possible" that would turn off alot of users Further you stated another glaring problem, Jetbrians mikes IDE's plural, specialized for each lang they are targeting, VSCode needs to work with many lang, there is not a VSCode:Python edition, and VSCode:Powershell edition, etc et c etc It is just VSCode and plugins add the Languages you need / want support for
- cutler 6y ago
  I thought that until I realised IntelliJ Ultimate is really IntelliJ + WebStorm + PHPStorm + RubyMine + PyCharm + Goland and with plugins you're covered for most major PLs except C,C++ and C# which require 2 separate IDEs.
  - jolux 6y ago
    And Swift/Objective-C require AppCode. They all have a fantastic SQL/database admin tool built in as well.
  - Kipters 6y ago
    JetBrains has Rider for C#
    - jolux 6y ago
      Yeah but you need to pay separately because it’s based on ReSharper, there’s no .NET plug-in for IDEA Ultimate.
      - hackbinary 6y ago
        But if your buying the full version, then the full library is only another £100 to begin with. Cheaper for personal use, and free for students. https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearl...
leetcrew 6y ago
> I'd be more interested in VSCode if Microsoft's strategy was to relentlessly implement the most popular plugins into VSCode natively such that the most commonly used and needed functions were built in and did not require plugins. microsoft already has an IDE like this for their core languages; it's called visual studio. it's kinda bloated, but it's still a great tool for languages that microsoft has deigned to grace with its direct attention. for anything else, you're SOL; the plugin ecosystem is pretty limited for VS. the more VSCode reimplements plugins "natively" (isn't it all JS anyway?), the less it has a reason to exist.
thebigspacefuck 6y ago
It’s pretty easy though. You open a Python file, it asks if you want Python plug-in installed. Then you’re pretty much done except specifying your virtualenv. If you have linter settings it will ask if you want the linter installed. The big thing with Jetbrains is the cost. PyCharm is $9-$25/month and VSCode is free
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > If you have linter settings it will ask if you want the linter installed. And then, despite automatically identifying the local python venv, install the linter elsewhere so it doesn't work. But it integrates it wonderfully when you install the linter yourself, or if you use the bundled pylance.

SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago

Or, better yet, to re-implement the best plugins as installed by default plugins that could then be enabled/disabled by the user.

jcrben 6y ago

No way, it sucks when you've got a monolith full of unnecessary gadgetry. Right now VSCode is already getting pretty bloated w/ builtins

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
I could not understand why anyone would be happy if VSCode came with 50 core un-installable plugins and none of them were useful to you, since everyone has slightly different projects they're working on. It would be inefficient and it wouldn't cater to a larger user base.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  There's a happy middle ground that far too projects choose: building a modularized system, but distributing core, currated plugins with the system. Effectively, I don't care if I receive a batteries-included product where the batteries are pre-installed and on-demand loaded, vs one where they're permanently installed.

moron4hire 6y ago

>> I'd be more interested in VSCode if Microsoft's strategy was to relentlessly implement the most popular plugins into VSCode natively such that the most commonly used and needed functions were built in and did not require plugins. Unlike the FANG companies, Microsoft doesn't tend to rip the carpet out from under independent developers like that.

huffmsa 6y ago
Right, but they would. Plugins aren't paid right now, so all I'd think it would take would be Microsoft saying "hey, people like your plugin, we'll pay you to maintain it, and if you don't want to maintain it, we'll inhouse it." To avoid left-pad situations
- moron4hire 6y ago
  I don't know about VS Code, but in native VS, there are lots of paid plugins. There just isn't a store. You buy the plugins from the developers.
Eremotherium 6y ago
>Unlike the FANG companies, Microsoft doesn't tend to rip the carpet out from under independent developers like that. No, they roll them into the carpet and sodomize them like they did with Keivan Beigi and at most just sheepishly say sorry after some public outcry.
kmonsen 6y ago
Wasn’t there recently a thread were Microsoft interviewed someone that has a third party dev tool, declined to hire him and then recreated the same tool with almost the same name without acknowledgement?
- moron4hire 6y ago
  You mean the app that he named almost the same name as another, long-existing Microsoft product? (NuGet) It's not like AppGet was developed in a vacuum. And it's definitely nowhere near the situation like Facebook cloning Virtual Desktop, threatening to crush the original developer if he didn't join them, and naming it the exact same thing.

syshum 6y ago

This is the difference between an opinionated vs non-opinionated IDE You seem to prefer opinionated, where other people like the fact they can pick and choose from various plugins to my their IDE their own, and if they do not like the default implementation of a feature there likely is another plugin that may work for them. For example there are a couple of git plugins, all of them act slighty different based on the workflow of the users of that plugin, if MS came in and said "No this is how git workflow is in VSCode and no other way is possible" that would turn off alot of users Further you stated another glaring problem, Jetbrians mikes IDE's plural, specialized for each lang they are targeting, VSCode needs to work with many lang, there is not a VSCode:Python edition, and VSCode:Powershell edition, etc et c etc It is just VSCode and plugins add the Languages you need / want support for

cutler 6y ago
I thought that until I realised IntelliJ Ultimate is really IntelliJ + WebStorm + PHPStorm + RubyMine + PyCharm + Goland and with plugins you're covered for most major PLs except C,C++ and C# which require 2 separate IDEs.
- jolux 6y ago
  And Swift/Objective-C require AppCode. They all have a fantastic SQL/database admin tool built in as well.
- Kipters 6y ago
  JetBrains has Rider for C#
  - jolux 6y ago
    Yeah but you need to pay separately because it’s based on ReSharper, there’s no .NET plug-in for IDEA Ultimate.
    - hackbinary 6y ago
      But if your buying the full version, then the full library is only another £100 to begin with. Cheaper for personal use, and free for students. https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/buy/#commercial?billing=yearl...

leetcrew 6y ago

> I'd be more interested in VSCode if Microsoft's strategy was to relentlessly implement the most popular plugins into VSCode natively such that the most commonly used and needed functions were built in and did not require plugins. microsoft already has an IDE like this for their core languages; it's called visual studio. it's kinda bloated, but it's still a great tool for languages that microsoft has deigned to grace with its direct attention. for anything else, you're SOL; the plugin ecosystem is pretty limited for VS. the more VSCode reimplements plugins "natively" (isn't it all JS anyway?), the less it has a reason to exist.

thebigspacefuck 6y ago

It’s pretty easy though. You open a Python file, it asks if you want Python plug-in installed. Then you’re pretty much done except specifying your virtualenv. If you have linter settings it will ask if you want the linter installed. The big thing with Jetbrains is the cost. PyCharm is $9-$25/month and VSCode is free

dragonwriter 6y ago
> If you have linter settings it will ask if you want the linter installed. And then, despite automatically identifying the local python venv, install the linter elsewhere so it doesn't work. But it integrates it wonderfully when you install the linter yourself, or if you use the bundled pylance.