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My point is that Apple's weird choices like SwiftUI being tied to internal versions of the standard libraries creates mixed messaging. It's only general purpose

My point is that Apple's weird choices like SwiftUI being tied to internal versions of the standard libraries creates mixed messaging. It's only general purpose enough that on Mac/iOS you get Apple's version of the standard libraries. On other platforms you use an open source version of the standard libraries as the community sees fit to implement the API. Bugs in Apple's internal variant are tied to OS releases, whereas bugs in the open source variant are tied to someone getting around to fixing it. If Apple went all in on open source like Rust, or all in on proprietary/closed, then it would have more consistent messaging about what the language is for.

skohan 6y ago
In practice I don't think it's that confusing. You have a large standard library which is available everywhere, and then you have a set of proprietary API's which are only available on Apple platforms. Is the situation that different from C# and windows API's?
- jarjoura 6y ago
  .Net 5 and C# 9.0 are very much 100% open all the way down to the core. https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn (c#) https://github.com/dotnet/winforms https://github.com/dotnet/winforms (UI) https://github.com/dotnet/wpf https://github.com/dotnet/wpf (UI) https://github.com/dotnet/core https://github.com/dotnet/core (Foundation) I don't consider the Win32 API itself part of .NET or C# as they've existed long before either.
  - djxfade 6y ago
    Exactly, and most of the proprietary libraries and frameworks in Swift are in the exact same situation. They are mostly wrappers around macOS and iOS libs and UIKit/AppKit
  - Razengan 6y ago
    What about DirectX? And what’s the most common framework for Windows GUI apps anyway? > I don't consider the Win32 API itself part of .NET or C# SwiftUI isn’t “part” of Swift either, it’s a proprietary application of Swift, and it’s fucking amazing, I don’t want to work with any other framework now.

skohan 6y ago

In practice I don't think it's that confusing. You have a large standard library which is available everywhere, and then you have a set of proprietary API's which are only available on Apple platforms. Is the situation that different from C# and windows API's?

jarjoura 6y ago
.Net 5 and C# 9.0 are very much 100% open all the way down to the core. https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn (c#) https://github.com/dotnet/winforms https://github.com/dotnet/winforms (UI) https://github.com/dotnet/wpf https://github.com/dotnet/wpf (UI) https://github.com/dotnet/core https://github.com/dotnet/core (Foundation) I don't consider the Win32 API itself part of .NET or C# as they've existed long before either.
- djxfade 6y ago
  Exactly, and most of the proprietary libraries and frameworks in Swift are in the exact same situation. They are mostly wrappers around macOS and iOS libs and UIKit/AppKit
- Razengan 6y ago
  What about DirectX? And what’s the most common framework for Windows GUI apps anyway? > I don't consider the Win32 API itself part of .NET or C# SwiftUI isn’t “part” of Swift either, it’s a proprietary application of Swift, and it’s fucking amazing, I don’t want to work with any other framework now.