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There are two different privacy issues at play. 1. You consent to being tracked in exchange for services consumed (Google Maps Navigation, for example). 2. Yo

There are two different privacy issues at play. 1. You consent to being tracked in exchange for services consumed (Google Maps Navigation, for example). 2. You don't consent to it but you're still being tracked. Not only that, the data is then sold to any and every buyer. For example: https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2019/07/superhuman-is-spying-on-you https://mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2019/07/superhuman-i... OP has problems with #2. > Copyright, on the other hand, is much easier. Sure, no reason why privacy can't be too. Here's a simple framework to think about Privacy online: Provide an opt-out for tracking, selling / sharing data etc etc.

fxtentacle 6y ago
Actuall, I feel most strongly about those cases where data about me is being saved and I don't even know about it. Because those data collectors who don't even dare to ask for permission are probably the worst ones.
arp242 6y ago
What is "tracking"? Is recording a server log tracking? What if it only records the pathname? What about the "visitor counter" GIFs from the 90s? So that superhuman app tracks if someone read the message; WhatApp, Telegram, and Signal do that too with their read receipts. Is that tracking? Why? Or why not? And I don't see anything about selling this data in that article btw. People keep using all these words like "privacy" and "tracking" and "personal data", but my point was you need to clearly define what you mean with that, in a way that's workable. And "every single last bit of data that could possibly be recorded" is not really a workable definition IMO. These kind of things are what you might call "opposition politics"; it's all very easy to make vague proposals when you're in the opposition, but once you're in government and need to actually start enacting workable realistic laws that take all the various legitimate interests in account (and I think there is some legitimate interest in collecting some data) things get much harder.
- ignoramous 6y ago
  > * What is "tracking"? Is recording a server log tracking? What if it only records the pathname? What about the "visitor counter" GIFs from the 90s?* I'd settle for personally / uniquely identifiable information as tracking. > WhatsApp, Telegram, and Signal do that too with their read receipts. Is that tracking? Why? Or why not? 1. There's an opt-out. 2. It is clear as a day that the other side can see when you've read the message. 3. Again, services consumed with consent. > ...my point was you need to clearly define what you mean with that. Agreed. I think PII (personally identifiable information) is a good start. > ... it's all very easy to make vague proposals when you're in the opposition Some organizations have been working long and hard over privacy issues online. There have been very well-defined, valid, and solid proposals from them. We'll see eventually what comes of those. > ...need to actually start enacting workable realistic laws that take all the various legitimate interests in account things get much harder. Agreed. You'd love this talk by B Schneier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3NJ-Ow2Lvg?t=39m39s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3NJ-Ow2Lvg?t=39m39s

fxtentacle 6y ago

Actuall, I feel most strongly about those cases where data about me is being saved and I don't even know about it. Because those data collectors who don't even dare to ask for permission are probably the worst ones.

arp242 6y ago

What is "tracking"? Is recording a server log tracking? What if it only records the pathname? What about the "visitor counter" GIFs from the 90s? So that superhuman app tracks if someone read the message; WhatApp, Telegram, and Signal do that too with their read receipts. Is that tracking? Why? Or why not? And I don't see anything about selling this data in that article btw. People keep using all these words like "privacy" and "tracking" and "personal data", but my point was you need to clearly define what you mean with that, in a way that's workable. And "every single last bit of data that could possibly be recorded" is not really a workable definition IMO. These kind of things are what you might call "opposition politics"; it's all very easy to make vague proposals when you're in the opposition, but once you're in government and need to actually start enacting workable realistic laws that take all the various legitimate interests in account (and I think there is some legitimate interest in collecting some data) things get much harder.

ignoramous 6y ago
> * What is "tracking"? Is recording a server log tracking? What if it only records the pathname? What about the "visitor counter" GIFs from the 90s?* I'd settle for personally / uniquely identifiable information as tracking. > WhatsApp, Telegram, and Signal do that too with their read receipts. Is that tracking? Why? Or why not? 1. There's an opt-out. 2. It is clear as a day that the other side can see when you've read the message. 3. Again, services consumed with consent. > ...my point was you need to clearly define what you mean with that. Agreed. I think PII (personally identifiable information) is a good start. > ... it's all very easy to make vague proposals when you're in the opposition Some organizations have been working long and hard over privacy issues online. There have been very well-defined, valid, and solid proposals from them. We'll see eventually what comes of those. > ...need to actually start enacting workable realistic laws that take all the various legitimate interests in account things get much harder. Agreed. You'd love this talk by B Schneier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3NJ-Ow2Lvg?t=39m39s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3NJ-Ow2Lvg?t=39m39s