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- It is an international human right to be allowed to seek asylum from danger and poverty - ICE is treating immigrants in ways that flagrantly violate internat

- It is an international human right to be allowed to seek asylum from danger and poverty - ICE is treating immigrants in ways that flagrantly violate international human rights law, such as separating families, witholding adequate nourishment and healthcare, recent reports of forced sterilizations, sexual assaults, and many more that are just a google search away. - For any reading who aren't familiar with this line of argument: "they're just enforcing immigration law" is a common victim-blaming strategy that blames immigrants seeking asylum for their own abuse at the hands of our immigration agents. It implies that anyone who violates a country's laws, no matter how unfair or in violation of international human rights, deserves any punishment that comes their way.

chrisjarvis 6y ago
>its an intl. human right to be allowed to seek asylum from ~~poverty~~ citation needed. danger, yes but poverty? your third bullet also implies that all illegal immigrants are refugees seeking asylum.
- gotostatement 6y ago
  Not everyone might agree but, taking a global view, I would interpret Article 25 of the UDHR [0] - right to standard of living - combined with Article 2 - right to nondiscrimination - as supporting the right to flee poverty in general. Going further, the relative wealth of countries like the U.S. is tied with exploitation and imperialistic meddling in the places where people are fleeing from, so it takes on that extra layer of responsibility. I argue that poverty is a form of persecution (exploitation) of the poor by the rich, which meets the letter of Article 14. > your third bullet also implies that all illegal immigrants are refugees seeking asylum. I'm not following. [0] https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ind...
  - ecf 6y ago
    How much would the human population need to contract in order to provide everyone with the same wasteful quality-of-life that the average citizen from a western industrialized nation has?
    - neuralRiot 6y ago
      >in order to provide everyone with the same wasteful quality-of-life that the average citizen from a western industrialized nation has? For people in some places around the world a pair of shoes and 3 meals a day can be called a luxury.
    - gotostatement 6y ago
      citation for why you believe it's a problem of population rather than a political problem of resource distribution?
  - tjs8rj 6y ago
    Yikes, I appreciate the insight into your perspective but this terrifies me that otherwise intelligent people hold the disgusting ideas so confidently that you do.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - gotostatement 6y ago
      which ideas do you consider "disgusting"?
sieabahlpark 6y ago
No is preventing #1, if you follow the rules you get through the system. Improvements can be made, abolishing isn't an improvement. You provide no counter solution. I'm sure the cartels make sure everyone is taken care of, hydrated, and definitely not sexually abused. You provide half the story and are potentially ignorant of other factors. Like for example how not everyone seeking asylum is actually seeking asylum, or how "families" are trying to smuggle the guy in with captured women and children. It's not all roses where everyone lines up like an amusement park to seek asylum.
timbo1642 6y ago
> It is an international human right to be allowed to seek asylum from danger and poverty Yes, but they can ask other countries, especially closer countries that speak the same language. WE AREN'T REQUIRED TO TAKE EVERYONE. This also isn't the case for all of them, yet you make it seem like it is. > - ICE is treating immigrants in ways that flagrantly violate international human rights law, such as separating families, witholding adequate nourishment and healthcare, recent reports of forced sterilizations, sexual assaults, and many more that are just a google search away. OK, so they should stop trying to come over if its so bad. They should get the message and go to another country. They come to us because they want all the benefits and to freeload. If they didn't, they would go someplace else like a country that speaks their language.

chrisjarvis 6y ago

>its an intl. human right to be allowed to seek asylum from ~~poverty~~ citation needed. danger, yes but poverty? your third bullet also implies that all illegal immigrants are refugees seeking asylum.

gotostatement 6y ago
Not everyone might agree but, taking a global view, I would interpret Article 25 of the UDHR [0] - right to standard of living - combined with Article 2 - right to nondiscrimination - as supporting the right to flee poverty in general. Going further, the relative wealth of countries like the U.S. is tied with exploitation and imperialistic meddling in the places where people are fleeing from, so it takes on that extra layer of responsibility. I argue that poverty is a form of persecution (exploitation) of the poor by the rich, which meets the letter of Article 14. > your third bullet also implies that all illegal immigrants are refugees seeking asylum. I'm not following. [0] https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ind...
- ecf 6y ago
  How much would the human population need to contract in order to provide everyone with the same wasteful quality-of-life that the average citizen from a western industrialized nation has?
  - neuralRiot 6y ago
    >in order to provide everyone with the same wasteful quality-of-life that the average citizen from a western industrialized nation has? For people in some places around the world a pair of shoes and 3 meals a day can be called a luxury.
  - gotostatement 6y ago
    citation for why you believe it's a problem of population rather than a political problem of resource distribution?
- tjs8rj 6y ago
  Yikes, I appreciate the insight into your perspective but this terrifies me that otherwise intelligent people hold the disgusting ideas so confidently that you do.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - gotostatement 6y ago
    which ideas do you consider "disgusting"?

sieabahlpark 6y ago

No is preventing #1, if you follow the rules you get through the system. Improvements can be made, abolishing isn't an improvement. You provide no counter solution. I'm sure the cartels make sure everyone is taken care of, hydrated, and definitely not sexually abused. You provide half the story and are potentially ignorant of other factors. Like for example how not everyone seeking asylum is actually seeking asylum, or how "families" are trying to smuggle the guy in with captured women and children. It's not all roses where everyone lines up like an amusement park to seek asylum.

timbo1642 6y ago

> It is an international human right to be allowed to seek asylum from danger and poverty Yes, but they can ask other countries, especially closer countries that speak the same language. WE AREN'T REQUIRED TO TAKE EVERYONE. This also isn't the case for all of them, yet you make it seem like it is. > - ICE is treating immigrants in ways that flagrantly violate international human rights law, such as separating families, witholding adequate nourishment and healthcare, recent reports of forced sterilizations, sexual assaults, and many more that are just a google search away. OK, so they should stop trying to come over if its so bad. They should get the message and go to another country. They come to us because they want all the benefits and to freeload. If they didn't, they would go someplace else like a country that speaks their language.