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I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the

I understand that this definitely helps some vested interests (hotel industry, for instance), but the issue transcends a discussion of hotels vs. Airbnb and the cost of housing. I've had the displeasure of living in an apartment building that was used partially for long-term tenants (of which I was one) and short-term Airbnb guests. The experience was terrible. Constant noise, incredibly inconsiderate people leaving trash everywhere, etc. The interesting thing is the short-term units weren't cheap; they were actually rather expensive. So it wasn't as though we were getting a bunch of college partier types; they were typically young professionals. Given how unpleasant it was, I can't imagine how bad it would be if the quality of guests had been different. The building was a large house that had been divided into a number of units. I spoke to some of our neighbors (who owned their homes, they were not renting units like we were) and they expressed the difficulty they'd had with the short-term guests in our building. It had been years of calling the police, legal action, etc. The people I spoke with seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play. They didn't enjoy finding drugs in the drive way and urine all over their property. Airbnb, in my opinion, definitely has a detrimental effect on communities. Even if the guests are nice, if some large fraction of the population is turning over daily, that necessarily takes away from the community.

arcturus17 6y ago
Everyone I've talked to in Madrid has had the same experience you describe. Neighbor communities ("comunidad de vecinos", akin to a homeowner's association) are enshrined by Spanish law and I believe they can act against the AirBnBization of buildings in some cases, but further EU-level protection for locals are more than welcome.
yardie 6y ago
I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore. Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The owners and tenants are absolutely pissed. Because at $3000+/month this is not how they wanted to live. That building management company was fired and a new one brought in. With armed security now. The straw for me was the variability of the owners. If I get a substandard hotel room I call the desk and get moved to another suite. If I have a substandard Airbnb I only get a refund. I'm still left scrambling to find new, last minute accommodations.
- deegles 6y ago
  Not even a refund sometimes. If you look at the 30+ day Airbnb rentals their policy is "full refund, except for the first 30 days." I had to be really careful to pick a place that had good reviews because I wouldn't be able to get much back.
  - literallycancer 6y ago
    If there are problems with the place, like that it looks like shit you are going to ultimately win the chargeback dispute, but it's annoying regardless. And of course the Airbnb dispute resolution process is complete garbage designed to annoy the user enough so that they give up. Gotta get those numbers up, right?
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      Datapoint of just one: I had one AirBnB disaster as a renter. Support did initially steer me towards a compromise (to accept the place with a reduction in rent) but as soon as I persisted, they agreed to a full refund (including the platform fee). It wasn't a difficult experience at all. I was on my own to find a place to stay, but it was Vegas, so that was trivial.
      - yardie 6y ago
        > I was on my own to find a place to stay, but it was Vegas, so that was trivial. I was in the south of France during peak vacation season. Every hotel in this small town was booked. With a toddler who was visibly worried and extremely tired. To put it conservatively, it was a fucking nightmare.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  > Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. is this really a good thing? once you start banning rentals in the 1-6 month range, you are no longer just targeting tourists. you're also hurting folks without stable jobs who can't commit to a typical lease length.
stingraycharles 6y ago
This type is of stuff is why cities have zoning, and I feel like all this Airbnb discussion is just people realizing why things were like they were. As a tourist who occasionally used Airbnb myself, of course I enjoy it but it’s not like I couldn’t enjoy a hotel. I completely understand why it’s bad for communities. There must be some middle ground to be reached here, but when in doubt, I would err on the side of communities, not the Airbnb property owners; the negative impact it has on communities is far worse than the positive impact it has on tourism.
- soperj 6y ago
  I guess as a tourist with a family, it's completely different. Hotels suck for small kids. Having a room with a door that can close, and a space outside is such a massively different experience than a hotel room.
  - skor 6y ago
    Thankfully more hotels have realized this and seen where ABB was winning. At least around western Europe it is ever more common to have kitchen, baby cots, suites without dangerous staircases, patios/gardens/baby-pools etc. Once kids are >=5, they can sit and dine in restaurants, enjoy buffets, etc, so the classic hotels become comfortable again.
  - bilbo0s 6y ago
    Maybe I'm privileged? I don't want to sound tone deaf if I am, but hotels have always been fine for my family on short trips. Kids and all. It's not that long, for me a max of a few days. Typically, even for other families max would be maybe 2 or 3 weeks. Normally much shorter than that. I don't think having to use hotels for short term stays is all that inconvenient. I confess to using apartments for long term rentals. The last time we were in Paris, I took an apartment for the 3 months of the summer through a service that's something like airbnb. That was better for the kids. But that's also longer term stuff. Hotels are honestly not all that terrible for short term family stays. If you have to go somewhere in France long term, airbnb would likely still be available to you.
vertis 6y ago
As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand that we're not the normal tenants, we stay for weeks to months, recycle when possible and rarely if ever make any noise that would irritate other tenants. But I like to think we're not detrimental (I understand this is a little #NotAllMen). Interestingly, AirBnB is far from a perfect solution for us either (some of the AirBnBs we've stayed at have been absolutely shit). But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Going to the supermarket, living outside the old town. As far a bad tenants go, before we left Australia we owned an apartment in a fairly average apartment block. There was a council flat within the block, and the tenant was nothing but trouble. Leaving rubbish and furniture around the property. Drinking to excess. Having raging arguments with associates. It does not take AirBnB to have problems with other parties within an apartment block. (None of this is necessarily negates what you say, just an interesting counter point) Edit: I would love to know why people are downvoting?
- skullx 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure there is a lot of options other than Hotels that would cover your needs, that existed long before Airbnb. Just to name a few you can stay in aparthotels , a common thing in almost every country, or you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb. IMO Airbnb does more bad than good and transform centric areas of big cities in amusement park for the tourist.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    > you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb AirBnB actually solves a lot of this problem, though. I can't imagine the difficulty of finding 20-30 different, independent, 1-month apartment stays directly with the apartment owners, dealing with security deposits and short-term leases, etc. They're a directory/marketplace/availability clearinghouse. They're an intermediary. They're a payment processor. They provide ratings and reviews. They provide some miniscule level of support. It might be the case that AirBnB is more bad than good, but I think it's at least a little unreasonable to suggest "you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner" for the digital nomad case.
foolfoolz 6y ago
of course no one wants an air bnb neighbor. when you own a house and the property next door is a renter that’s worse than an owner there full time. what if a fence needs to be replaced on the property line? you think that owner will care as much? you put so much of your money and value into property that you want everyone around you to do the same. the shared investment makes everyone try a little harder. short term visits or even renters don’t share the investment and don’t care
- vertis 6y ago
  This is equally true of a apartment block full of long-term tenants (at least in Australia). If none of the owners live there then they have precious little incentive to fix things and the tenants have no power.
kyleblarson 6y ago
You are free to move elsewhere.
- ck425 6y ago
  So local residents should just leave anywhere they becomes popular with tourists?
- joshgev 6y ago
  Indeed we did, which helps strengthen my point that Airbnb disrupts communities. I put almost a year into living there, trying to get to know my neighbors, establishing relationships with local store owners and employees, etc. I've now left, so now the community has one fewer people in it that actually gave a shit about the place.
cgh 6y ago
The house behind ours in our little community was an AirBnB rental and it was a constant source of issues. Like you said, these weren't lower-income people causing these issues, but young professionals here for outdoor recreation (skiing, mountain biking, etc). There was zero regard for the families living all around them and eventually the town passed a bylaw to deal with short-term rentals. Long story short, everyone within earshot of this house now hates AirBnB.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Tourism economy comes with tourist problems.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    I recall one summer probably freshman year in college, we went to the Wisconsin Dells. I was busy flirting with ideas about how I would start my life, so certain topics were on my mind that hadn't thought too hard about before or since. This whole town is tourism. I wonder what it must be like to live here? I felt vaguely uncomfortable the entire time, until I felt really uncomfortable, in ways that only an angsty 19 year old can manage. I still have this vignette in my head of this moment in a convenience store. It was one of those counters where the register goes to the depth of the counter, so I'm standing basically face to face with the clerk while my parents are paying to my left. She's about my age, and I'm wondering, is this really what she wants to be doing? Or is this all there is, here? She could be teaching a class or training to be a gardener but she's selling M&Ms to a bunch of self-absorbed tourists who don't even see her, and are just here for the day and will be gone tomorrow. It must suck to date around here, too. The ride on the Ducks through a bit of nature was by far the high point. (That is also the only time I've ever witnessed a golden retriever be anything but adorable - threatened to bite me for an abortive attempt at a head pat. Man, fuck the Dells.)
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      >She's about my age, and I'm wondering, is this really what she wants to be doing? Or is this all there is, here? This applies to probably 90% of the people in the world. The whole follow your passions thing is an upper middle class developed world thing.
barkingcat 6y ago
People rent airbnb's to do things at where they don't want to do it at their primary residence. Quality of guests have nothing to do with the noise/etc because that's the specific purpose that people rent airbnb's for - to host parties, do drugs, and basically trash the place.
- seattle_spring 6y ago
  > People rent airbnb's to do things at where they don't want to do it at their primary residence. You're totally right. For example, I can't live in Barcelona from my house in Washington State so I'll go rent one there if I want that amenity. Your claim that people mostly rent Airbnbs to host parties, do drugs, and trash houses requires a citation. I would not be surprised if less than 1/100 of 1% of Airbnb stays are for folks who aim to do any of what you claim.
llsf 6y ago
And Paris is one of the most touristic place on earth, so the pressure to convert long-term rentals in short-term rentals is extreme. Paris has been testing that detrimental effect for several years now. It is so lucrative that an economy on top of AirBnB, flourished. I do not know what is the right answer, but for a city like Paris, hotels are probably the most efficient way to deal with the flow of tourists. Maybe AirBnb in src location should buy outright some buildings and convert them in hotels , dedicated to short-term rentals ?
- andi999 6y ago
  I think the problem in Paris is not near the problem in barcelona
closeparen 6y ago
> seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play This is certainly a valuable thing, I can see why people want it and I support it being available to them. But why are these the only people who seem reasonable? This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties." Why is this preference so privileged over all the others?
- joshgev 6y ago
  This was an otherwise quiet residential neighborhood, not particularly close to any attractions. No one is saying that these people who bothered everyone around them were doing something fundamentally wrong. Partying and traveling are great and I do these things as well. However, it is a pretty difficult position to take, in my opinion, that it is okay for short-term guests to come in for a few days to a few weeks, disregard all norms held by those around them and who actually care about the community, and bother everyone while doing so. You do you, but please don't do it in my neighborhood if it is going to disrupt everyone's lives.
- RestlessMind 6y ago
  Like most things in life, this may boil down to who came first and who holds most of the power? If someone lands in a suburbia and wants to convert it into a dense metropolis because he wants to enjoy city life, existing residents have enough power (and moral high ground) to ask him to fuck off to Manhattan. By the same rule, if someone were to go to Manhattan and wanted a peaceful life with lots of open space, he should move out to suburbs instead of trying to convert Manhattan to his tastes. Only way a status quo can change is if the newcomers amass enough power to change it.
  - UglyToad 6y ago
    This is somewhat formalised in the UK with the agent of change principle, basically you can't just rezone and complain about the nature of the neighbourhood https://www.citymetric.com/business/uk-planning-system-finally-recognises-agent-change-principle-so-now-what-4301 https://www.citymetric.com/business/uk-planning-system-final...
NicolasGorden 6y ago
I live in a tourist town and have lived in different tourist towns my whole life (even in other countries) so I'm quite well acquainted with the issues that AirBNB has. Overall, I think it's not a new thing to AirBNB. I think it's a NIMBY vs YIMBY thing. Established players in any community have little desire for expansion. Non-established players in any community have greater incentive to want to see expansion. For the most part, the non established are seeking to become established by filling the niches created by expansion. Expansion will always have a cost, as well as a benefit. These two are un-evenly distributed and cause tension. Overall, at least where I live, I know that removing vacation rentals would decrease tourism. As we have seen with COVID, less tourism in a tourist town and city budgets are restricted, services cut and business close. I like to see my little city vibrant and economically healthy, so I support YIMBY projects, even with their necessary negatives. That means I have to put up with unruly-annoying people. We can't eat our pie and have it at the same time.
- gridlockd 6y ago
  > We can't eat our pie and have it at the same time. We can still talk about the pie, how good the pie is, that they don't make pie like this anymore - anything to distract from the fact that the pie has long been eaten.

arcturus17 6y ago

Everyone I've talked to in Madrid has had the same experience you describe. Neighbor communities ("comunidad de vecinos", akin to a homeowner's association) are enshrined by Spanish law and I believe they can act against the AirBnBization of buildings in some cases, but further EU-level protection for locals are more than welcome.

yardie 6y ago

I own in a building that used to be rampant with AirBnb rentals. Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. I used to not mind Airbnb and was a long time proponent. But the edge cases aren't even edge cases anymore. Just within the last few days one of the more popular buildings in our neighborhood had a shooting. The owners and tenants are absolutely pissed. Because at $3000+/month this is not how they wanted to live. That building management company was fired and a new one brought in. With armed security now. The straw for me was the variability of the owners. If I get a substandard hotel room I call the desk and get moved to another suite. If I have a substandard Airbnb I only get a refund. I'm still left scrambling to find new, last minute accommodations.

deegles 6y ago
Not even a refund sometimes. If you look at the 30+ day Airbnb rentals their policy is "full refund, except for the first 30 days." I had to be really careful to pick a place that had good reviews because I wouldn't be able to get much back.
- literallycancer 6y ago
  If there are problems with the place, like that it looks like shit you are going to ultimately win the chargeback dispute, but it's annoying regardless. And of course the Airbnb dispute resolution process is complete garbage designed to annoy the user enough so that they give up. Gotta get those numbers up, right?
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Datapoint of just one: I had one AirBnB disaster as a renter. Support did initially steer me towards a compromise (to accept the place with a reduction in rent) but as soon as I persisted, they agreed to a full refund (including the platform fee). It wasn't a difficult experience at all. I was on my own to find a place to stay, but it was Vegas, so that was trivial.
    - yardie 6y ago
      > I was on my own to find a place to stay, but it was Vegas, so that was trivial. I was in the south of France during peak vacation season. Every hotel in this small town was booked. With a toddler who was visibly worried and extremely tired. To put it conservatively, it was a fucking nightmare.
leetcrew 6y ago
> Once we had enough owners to vote on new bylaws we reduced short term rentals dramatically. From do as you want, to 30 days, and now 6 months. is this really a good thing? once you start banning rentals in the 1-6 month range, you are no longer just targeting tourists. you're also hurting folks without stable jobs who can't commit to a typical lease length.

stingraycharles 6y ago

This type is of stuff is why cities have zoning, and I feel like all this Airbnb discussion is just people realizing why things were like they were. As a tourist who occasionally used Airbnb myself, of course I enjoy it but it’s not like I couldn’t enjoy a hotel. I completely understand why it’s bad for communities. There must be some middle ground to be reached here, but when in doubt, I would err on the side of communities, not the Airbnb property owners; the negative impact it has on communities is far worse than the positive impact it has on tourism.

soperj 6y ago
I guess as a tourist with a family, it's completely different. Hotels suck for small kids. Having a room with a door that can close, and a space outside is such a massively different experience than a hotel room.
- skor 6y ago
  Thankfully more hotels have realized this and seen where ABB was winning. At least around western Europe it is ever more common to have kitchen, baby cots, suites without dangerous staircases, patios/gardens/baby-pools etc. Once kids are >=5, they can sit and dine in restaurants, enjoy buffets, etc, so the classic hotels become comfortable again.
- bilbo0s 6y ago
  Maybe I'm privileged? I don't want to sound tone deaf if I am, but hotels have always been fine for my family on short trips. Kids and all. It's not that long, for me a max of a few days. Typically, even for other families max would be maybe 2 or 3 weeks. Normally much shorter than that. I don't think having to use hotels for short term stays is all that inconvenient. I confess to using apartments for long term rentals. The last time we were in Paris, I took an apartment for the 3 months of the summer through a service that's something like airbnb. That was better for the kids. But that's also longer term stuff. Hotels are honestly not all that terrible for short term family stays. If you have to go somewhere in France long term, airbnb would likely still be available to you.

vertis 6y ago

As a digital nomad I live my life in AirBnBs (with the exception of the occasional hotel and housesit). Over the last 2 years I have stayed in ~20-30 AirBnBs in Asia and Europe (we were going to do the Americas this year...alas). Without AirBnB I don't know how we would be able to live as digital nomads. Hotels are not acceptable because they lack kitchens and laundries (and laptop friendly workspaces). I understand that we're not the normal tenants, we stay for weeks to months, recycle when possible and rarely if ever make any noise that would irritate other tenants. But I like to think we're not detrimental (I understand this is a little #NotAllMen). Interestingly, AirBnB is far from a perfect solution for us either (some of the AirBnBs we've stayed at have been absolutely shit). But one of the things the we value as digital nomads is living as the locals live (or as close as possible). Going to the supermarket, living outside the old town. As far a bad tenants go, before we left Australia we owned an apartment in a fairly average apartment block. There was a council flat within the block, and the tenant was nothing but trouble. Leaving rubbish and furniture around the property. Drinking to excess. Having raging arguments with associates. It does not take AirBnB to have problems with other parties within an apartment block. (None of this is necessarily negates what you say, just an interesting counter point) Edit: I would love to know why people are downvoting?

skullx 6y ago
I'm pretty sure there is a lot of options other than Hotels that would cover your needs, that existed long before Airbnb. Just to name a few you can stay in aparthotels , a common thing in almost every country, or you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb. IMO Airbnb does more bad than good and transform centric areas of big cities in amusement park for the tourist.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  > you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner, instead of doing it through Airbnb AirBnB actually solves a lot of this problem, though. I can't imagine the difficulty of finding 20-30 different, independent, 1-month apartment stays directly with the apartment owners, dealing with security deposits and short-term leases, etc. They're a directory/marketplace/availability clearinghouse. They're an intermediary. They're a payment processor. They provide ratings and reviews. They provide some miniscule level of support. It might be the case that AirBnB is more bad than good, but I think it's at least a little unreasonable to suggest "you can just rent a regular apartment directly with the owner" for the digital nomad case.

foolfoolz 6y ago

of course no one wants an air bnb neighbor. when you own a house and the property next door is a renter that’s worse than an owner there full time. what if a fence needs to be replaced on the property line? you think that owner will care as much? you put so much of your money and value into property that you want everyone around you to do the same. the shared investment makes everyone try a little harder. short term visits or even renters don’t share the investment and don’t care

vertis 6y ago
This is equally true of a apartment block full of long-term tenants (at least in Australia). If none of the owners live there then they have precious little incentive to fix things and the tenants have no power.

kyleblarson 6y ago

You are free to move elsewhere.

ck425 6y ago
So local residents should just leave anywhere they becomes popular with tourists?
joshgev 6y ago
Indeed we did, which helps strengthen my point that Airbnb disrupts communities. I put almost a year into living there, trying to get to know my neighbors, establishing relationships with local store owners and employees, etc. I've now left, so now the community has one fewer people in it that actually gave a shit about the place.

cgh 6y ago

The house behind ours in our little community was an AirBnB rental and it was a constant source of issues. Like you said, these weren't lower-income people causing these issues, but young professionals here for outdoor recreation (skiing, mountain biking, etc). There was zero regard for the families living all around them and eventually the town passed a bylaw to deal with short-term rentals. Long story short, everyone within earshot of this house now hates AirBnB.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Tourism economy comes with tourist problems.
- hinkley 6y ago
  I recall one summer probably freshman year in college, we went to the Wisconsin Dells. I was busy flirting with ideas about how I would start my life, so certain topics were on my mind that hadn't thought too hard about before or since. This whole town is tourism. I wonder what it must be like to live here? I felt vaguely uncomfortable the entire time, until I felt really uncomfortable, in ways that only an angsty 19 year old can manage. I still have this vignette in my head of this moment in a convenience store. It was one of those counters where the register goes to the depth of the counter, so I'm standing basically face to face with the clerk while my parents are paying to my left. She's about my age, and I'm wondering, is this really what she wants to be doing? Or is this all there is, here? She could be teaching a class or training to be a gardener but she's selling M&Ms to a bunch of self-absorbed tourists who don't even see her, and are just here for the day and will be gone tomorrow. It must suck to date around here, too. The ride on the Ducks through a bit of nature was by far the high point. (That is also the only time I've ever witnessed a golden retriever be anything but adorable - threatened to bite me for an abortive attempt at a head pat. Man, fuck the Dells.)
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    >She's about my age, and I'm wondering, is this really what she wants to be doing? Or is this all there is, here? This applies to probably 90% of the people in the world. The whole follow your passions thing is an upper middle class developed world thing.

barkingcat 6y ago

People rent airbnb's to do things at where they don't want to do it at their primary residence. Quality of guests have nothing to do with the noise/etc because that's the specific purpose that people rent airbnb's for - to host parties, do drugs, and basically trash the place.

seattle_spring 6y ago
> People rent airbnb's to do things at where they don't want to do it at their primary residence. You're totally right. For example, I can't live in Barcelona from my house in Washington State so I'll go rent one there if I want that amenity. Your claim that people mostly rent Airbnbs to host parties, do drugs, and trash houses requires a citation. I would not be surprised if less than 1/100 of 1% of Airbnb stays are for folks who aim to do any of what you claim.

llsf 6y ago

And Paris is one of the most touristic place on earth, so the pressure to convert long-term rentals in short-term rentals is extreme. Paris has been testing that detrimental effect for several years now. It is so lucrative that an economy on top of AirBnB, flourished. I do not know what is the right answer, but for a city like Paris, hotels are probably the most efficient way to deal with the flow of tourists. Maybe AirBnb in src location should buy outright some buildings and convert them in hotels , dedicated to short-term rentals ?

andi999 6y ago
I think the problem in Paris is not near the problem in barcelona

closeparen 6y ago

> seemed pretty reasonable; they wanted a quiet neighborhood where their kids could play This is certainly a valuable thing, I can see why people want it and I support it being available to them. But why are these the only people who seem reasonable? This land use is just as disruptive to the enjoyment of others as "a vibrant city with street life and parties." Why is this preference so privileged over all the others?

joshgev 6y ago
This was an otherwise quiet residential neighborhood, not particularly close to any attractions. No one is saying that these people who bothered everyone around them were doing something fundamentally wrong. Partying and traveling are great and I do these things as well. However, it is a pretty difficult position to take, in my opinion, that it is okay for short-term guests to come in for a few days to a few weeks, disregard all norms held by those around them and who actually care about the community, and bother everyone while doing so. You do you, but please don't do it in my neighborhood if it is going to disrupt everyone's lives.
RestlessMind 6y ago
Like most things in life, this may boil down to who came first and who holds most of the power? If someone lands in a suburbia and wants to convert it into a dense metropolis because he wants to enjoy city life, existing residents have enough power (and moral high ground) to ask him to fuck off to Manhattan. By the same rule, if someone were to go to Manhattan and wanted a peaceful life with lots of open space, he should move out to suburbs instead of trying to convert Manhattan to his tastes. Only way a status quo can change is if the newcomers amass enough power to change it.
- UglyToad 6y ago
  This is somewhat formalised in the UK with the agent of change principle, basically you can't just rezone and complain about the nature of the neighbourhood https://www.citymetric.com/business/uk-planning-system-finally-recognises-agent-change-principle-so-now-what-4301 https://www.citymetric.com/business/uk-planning-system-final...

NicolasGorden 6y ago

I live in a tourist town and have lived in different tourist towns my whole life (even in other countries) so I'm quite well acquainted with the issues that AirBNB has. Overall, I think it's not a new thing to AirBNB. I think it's a NIMBY vs YIMBY thing. Established players in any community have little desire for expansion. Non-established players in any community have greater incentive to want to see expansion. For the most part, the non established are seeking to become established by filling the niches created by expansion. Expansion will always have a cost, as well as a benefit. These two are un-evenly distributed and cause tension. Overall, at least where I live, I know that removing vacation rentals would decrease tourism. As we have seen with COVID, less tourism in a tourist town and city budgets are restricted, services cut and business close. I like to see my little city vibrant and economically healthy, so I support YIMBY projects, even with their necessary negatives. That means I have to put up with unruly-annoying people. We can't eat our pie and have it at the same time.

gridlockd 6y ago
> We can't eat our pie and have it at the same time. We can still talk about the pie, how good the pie is, that they don't make pie like this anymore - anything to distract from the fact that the pie has long been eaten.