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[Disclosure I work at Google Area 120 and would be partly responsible for this type of decision] This is a really helpful comment and I like the nod to transpa

[Disclosure I work at Google Area 120 and would be partly responsible for this type of decision] This is a really helpful comment and I like the nod to transparency. Thank you! Not sure we could get quite so concrete publicly (there are lots of unknowns and wouldn't want to make commitments we can't keep), but aligning goals between the business, team, and users/customers is a great idea and something we can improve on.

someone7x 6y ago
Are all these comments about the near and inevitable death of your new product at all soul-crushing? I'm a stranger on the internet and even I can feel the burn. Good luck.
- shajznnckfke 6y ago
  I’m sure the coming promotion/fat refresher for shipping a product helps ease the suffering.
  - jjoonathan 6y ago
    Have they fixed the incentives yet? Or is it still "ship = good, maintain = bad," guaranteeing that the pattern continues?
    - shajznnckfke 6y ago
      I’m not sure the incentive is really wrong, although it sucks for the users affected. It’s sort of like how VCs want startups to reach unicorn status or go bust trying. Google doesn’t want to waste engineers running a lifestyle business.
- cflewis 6y ago
  As a Googler, I'd just say it's a boring meme that shows little thought and just wastes time actually getting to interesting discussion here. It's almost akin to "first" from the old days of Slashdot or the race to mention generics whenever anything related to Go comes up. Products come and products go, this is not unique to Google. Killed By Google is cited as some sort of proof, but that goes back to _2003_, and does nothing to talk about whether the product was replaced with something new that users were transitioned to. Then you have a company like Microsoft that keeps things around in perpetuity, but sometimes to the chagrin of users who want new features added or you get incongruent UX (you can still find plenty of very old apps in Windows 10). And this is fine too, but it's not a meme and so never comes up.
  - lowiqengineer 6y ago
    Really not helping the condescending Googler stereotype there bud. Or perhaps its OK for you to be this way as a tech "elite" that makes $450k a year.
    - what_ever 6y ago
      I don't see any condescending language in that comment. But with my disclosure, you will be quick to say, of course I can't. Not sure where the "elite" or "450k/year" is coming from as well in the parent comment. Perhaps give that comment another chance to see what they are actually saying? Disc: Googler.
      - TheRealSteel 6y ago
        Calling it a boring meme is condescending. It's dismissing people's concerns as a joke they made up for attention, rather than addressing and refuting their actual argument.
        what_ever 6y ago
        Linking to killedbygoogle.com where more than half of things are not actually kiled by Google is not a good argument. I agree that products getting killed by Google is a concern and a few comment accurately point out and add to discussions while most of the others just keep repeating like a meme. Very rarely the discussion feels like a discussion. OP brought up another point about Google being a 20 year old company so you are ought to see lot of products being shut down over the time. While the reply had nothing to do with that but instead resorted to ad hominem attack.
        lazyasciiart 6y ago
        Oh no they used an ad hominem so you responded with an irrelevant whataboutism.
        6y ago
- prlambert 6y ago
  No, you get a thick skin pretty quickly as a Google PM (and come to think of it as a Twitter PM too, my former job). Constructive comments are helpful and even the raw frustration I know is coming from a genuine place. Having your tools disappear sucks. I feel that too.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
Could Google not commit to open sourcing projects in a maintainable way (public repos, k8s support versus just Borg, which no one has access to) and guarantee data export functionality as part of Takeout? This would significantly derisk attempting to use a fledgling Google service for end users. Definitely not a resourcing issue, entirely an organizational culture and philosophy decision to be made.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pc86 6y ago
  I don't work at Google but my understanding is there are a lot of proprietary, closed-source internal APIs that make this difficult-bordering-impossible.
  - InitialLastName 6y ago
    Yes, Google wouldn't want anyone seeing exactly how thoroughly everything hooks into their data collection and ad targeting systems.
alasdair_ 6y ago
This is the primary reason I don’t use new Google labs tools any more. If there was an explicit “we guarantee this will be fully supported for X length of time and migration will be easy if we kill it” I would be far more likely to adopt new tools. Also, is Area 120 the new Google Labs? I thought they killed off the whole Labs thing a couple of years ago? (The irony is not lost on me here.)

someone7x 6y ago

Are all these comments about the near and inevitable death of your new product at all soul-crushing? I'm a stranger on the internet and even I can feel the burn. Good luck.

shajznnckfke 6y ago
I’m sure the coming promotion/fat refresher for shipping a product helps ease the suffering.
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  Have they fixed the incentives yet? Or is it still "ship = good, maintain = bad," guaranteeing that the pattern continues?
  - shajznnckfke 6y ago
    I’m not sure the incentive is really wrong, although it sucks for the users affected. It’s sort of like how VCs want startups to reach unicorn status or go bust trying. Google doesn’t want to waste engineers running a lifestyle business.
cflewis 6y ago
As a Googler, I'd just say it's a boring meme that shows little thought and just wastes time actually getting to interesting discussion here. It's almost akin to "first" from the old days of Slashdot or the race to mention generics whenever anything related to Go comes up. Products come and products go, this is not unique to Google. Killed By Google is cited as some sort of proof, but that goes back to _2003_, and does nothing to talk about whether the product was replaced with something new that users were transitioned to. Then you have a company like Microsoft that keeps things around in perpetuity, but sometimes to the chagrin of users who want new features added or you get incongruent UX (you can still find plenty of very old apps in Windows 10). And this is fine too, but it's not a meme and so never comes up.
- lowiqengineer 6y ago
  Really not helping the condescending Googler stereotype there bud. Or perhaps its OK for you to be this way as a tech "elite" that makes $450k a year.
  - what_ever 6y ago
    I don't see any condescending language in that comment. But with my disclosure, you will be quick to say, of course I can't. Not sure where the "elite" or "450k/year" is coming from as well in the parent comment. Perhaps give that comment another chance to see what they are actually saying? Disc: Googler.
    - TheRealSteel 6y ago
      Calling it a boring meme is condescending. It's dismissing people's concerns as a joke they made up for attention, rather than addressing and refuting their actual argument.
      - what_ever 6y ago
        Linking to killedbygoogle.com where more than half of things are not actually kiled by Google is not a good argument. I agree that products getting killed by Google is a concern and a few comment accurately point out and add to discussions while most of the others just keep repeating like a meme. Very rarely the discussion feels like a discussion. OP brought up another point about Google being a 20 year old company so you are ought to see lot of products being shut down over the time. While the reply had nothing to do with that but instead resorted to ad hominem attack.
        lazyasciiart 6y ago
        Oh no they used an ad hominem so you responded with an irrelevant whataboutism.
        6y ago
prlambert 6y ago
No, you get a thick skin pretty quickly as a Google PM (and come to think of it as a Twitter PM too, my former job). Constructive comments are helpful and even the raw frustration I know is coming from a genuine place. Having your tools disappear sucks. I feel that too.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

Could Google not commit to open sourcing projects in a maintainable way (public repos, k8s support versus just Borg, which no one has access to) and guarantee data export functionality as part of Takeout? This would significantly derisk attempting to use a fledgling Google service for end users. Definitely not a resourcing issue, entirely an organizational culture and philosophy decision to be made.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pc86 6y ago
I don't work at Google but my understanding is there are a lot of proprietary, closed-source internal APIs that make this difficult-bordering-impossible.
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  Yes, Google wouldn't want anyone seeing exactly how thoroughly everything hooks into their data collection and ad targeting systems.

alasdair_ 6y ago

This is the primary reason I don’t use new Google labs tools any more. If there was an explicit “we guarantee this will be fully supported for X length of time and migration will be easy if we kill it” I would be far more likely to adopt new tools. Also, is Area 120 the new Google Labs? I thought they killed off the whole Labs thing a couple of years ago? (The irony is not lost on me here.)