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> which probably made getting pulled into that war inevitable As Japan saw it, the US oil embargo forced Japan to choose between war or a humiliating capitulat

> which probably made getting pulled into that war inevitable As Japan saw it, the US oil embargo forced Japan to choose between war or a humiliating capitulation to US demands. [1] The major takeaway is: never force a near-peer to choose between humiliation and war. Aristocrats are insulated from the true cost of war, and will always prefer it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_leading_to_the_attack_on_Pearl_Harbor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_leading_to_the_attack_o...

choward 6y ago
I thought this was deliberate though. FDR thought entering the war was the right thing to do but knew it wouldn't be liked by the American people. So he provoked Japan to force the US to enter the war.
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  Jame's Bradley's The China Mirage is a pretty good book on this. FDR didn't want to get into a war with Japan, and in his oil embargoes/financial asset freezes he left loopholes that would allow Japan to continue buying oil while convincing his political base that he was being tough on Japan. The bill was drafted in a way where Japan could submit requests to the state department and treasury to unfreeze enough assets to continue buying oil. However, FDR's assistant secretary of state, Dean Acheson, took a harder line on Japan and when FDR was meeting with Churchill in Newfoundland in August 1941 and Japanese tankers arrived for their preapproved oil shipments, Acheson refused to unfreeze Japanese funds so they could buy the oil and turned FDR's bill into an actual embargo.
valuearb 6y ago
The Japanese position was clearly irrational, crazy even. But nearly 40 years of right wing assassinations and military intriguing since the crushing of Russia in 1904 had created a monster. The entire country believed they were superior to other Asians, deserved to rule them and any one who refused to help were “humiliating” them. There were Japanese leaders who realized a war with the US was unwinnable (including Yamamoto), but taking that position publicly was suicide.
- rmrfstar 6y ago
  Yeah, good point. There are similarly jingoistic contemporary Asian powers that pretend everything offends them. It's dangerous.

choward 6y ago

I thought this was deliberate though. FDR thought entering the war was the right thing to do but knew it wouldn't be liked by the American people. So he provoked Japan to force the US to enter the war.

magicsmoke 6y ago
Jame's Bradley's The China Mirage is a pretty good book on this. FDR didn't want to get into a war with Japan, and in his oil embargoes/financial asset freezes he left loopholes that would allow Japan to continue buying oil while convincing his political base that he was being tough on Japan. The bill was drafted in a way where Japan could submit requests to the state department and treasury to unfreeze enough assets to continue buying oil. However, FDR's assistant secretary of state, Dean Acheson, took a harder line on Japan and when FDR was meeting with Churchill in Newfoundland in August 1941 and Japanese tankers arrived for their preapproved oil shipments, Acheson refused to unfreeze Japanese funds so they could buy the oil and turned FDR's bill into an actual embargo.

valuearb 6y ago

The Japanese position was clearly irrational, crazy even. But nearly 40 years of right wing assassinations and military intriguing since the crushing of Russia in 1904 had created a monster. The entire country believed they were superior to other Asians, deserved to rule them and any one who refused to help were “humiliating” them. There were Japanese leaders who realized a war with the US was unwinnable (including Yamamoto), but taking that position publicly was suicide.

rmrfstar 6y ago
Yeah, good point. There are similarly jingoistic contemporary Asian powers that pretend everything offends them. It's dangerous.