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I don't really think that follows; a lot of former slaves in the US stayed in the South, but that doesn't really in any way diminish how horrible the slavery wa

I don't really think that follows; a lot of former slaves in the US stayed in the South, but that doesn't really in any way diminish how horrible the slavery was here; they still voted in presidential elections (when they were allowed to anyway), they still paid taxes to the governments that allowed slavery to continue, they still had to buy products from the people that had enslaved them. There are a ton of social, economic, and political reasons to why that I'm not really fully qualified to get into, but the exact reasons don't really matter, because here's my point: despite all these facts, it still remains a fact that American slavery was exceptionally brutal. Even if the former slaves did learn a valuable trade while being enslaved, and at some level were grateful for it, at the end of the day, it was still absolutely horrific how they treated. I'm not trying to accuse you of slavery apologia, but I don't really think that just because some colonies continued to have keep the queen on their money that we can say it wasn't slavery or horrible in general.

globular-toast 6y ago
They weren't all treated horrifically. Slavery is wrong in principle, but that doesn't mean it was all horrific in practice. It wasn't all as depicted in 12 Years a Slave. Colonialism wasn't slavery, plain and simple. There's no argument to be had here. Calling it "basically slavery" is diminishing the seriousness of actual slavery, something which still exists in the world today. There were good things and bad things about colonialism. As it happens the British colonies tended to maintain local customs and laws instead of steam rolling everything as some other colonial powers did. We all live with laws and customs, many of which are chosen by other people. Does that make us all basically slaves?
- tombert 6y ago
  > They weren't all treated horrifically. Slavery is wrong in principle, but that doesn't mean it was all horrific in practice. It wasn't all as depicted in 12 Years a Slave. What does this have to do with anything? Sure, there were slaves that were treated kindly, but even if you proved that that was a majority of slaves, it really does not subtract from my point in any way, like, at all. The fact that remains that some slaves that were treated horribly still stayed in the south. > Colonialism wasn't slavery, plain and simple. Ok then. I guess we'll need to agree to disagree on this point. It seems like even if it's not "slavery" in your narrow definition, there's a pretty big bit of overlap between British colonization and slavery. > As it happens the British colonies tended to maintain local customs and laws instead of steam rolling everything as some other colonial powers did. In some places, yes, but in other places they would go around murdering a large percentage of the native populations and forcing them into labor. > If you go and visit any of the colonies you'll find that they gained a lot from British rule and many of them are quite grateful for it. Except for the ones that aren't, like, you know, the United States, or India. Did the US "gain a lot from British rule"? I mean, maybe, that's basically impossible to quantify, but I seriously don't know a single person in the US that is "grateful" for British rule...US schools basically teach that England was pretty evil and that's why we had to separate. While that's almost certainly propaganda and a gross oversimplification of history, the fact remains that the people of the US aren't "grateful" for the British rule, whatever that means.

globular-toast 6y ago

They weren't all treated horrifically. Slavery is wrong in principle, but that doesn't mean it was all horrific in practice. It wasn't all as depicted in 12 Years a Slave. Colonialism wasn't slavery, plain and simple. There's no argument to be had here. Calling it "basically slavery" is diminishing the seriousness of actual slavery, something which still exists in the world today. There were good things and bad things about colonialism. As it happens the British colonies tended to maintain local customs and laws instead of steam rolling everything as some other colonial powers did. We all live with laws and customs, many of which are chosen by other people. Does that make us all basically slaves?

tombert 6y ago
> They weren't all treated horrifically. Slavery is wrong in principle, but that doesn't mean it was all horrific in practice. It wasn't all as depicted in 12 Years a Slave. What does this have to do with anything? Sure, there were slaves that were treated kindly, but even if you proved that that was a majority of slaves, it really does not subtract from my point in any way, like, at all. The fact that remains that some slaves that were treated horribly still stayed in the south. > Colonialism wasn't slavery, plain and simple. Ok then. I guess we'll need to agree to disagree on this point. It seems like even if it's not "slavery" in your narrow definition, there's a pretty big bit of overlap between British colonization and slavery. > As it happens the British colonies tended to maintain local customs and laws instead of steam rolling everything as some other colonial powers did. In some places, yes, but in other places they would go around murdering a large percentage of the native populations and forcing them into labor. > If you go and visit any of the colonies you'll find that they gained a lot from British rule and many of them are quite grateful for it. Except for the ones that aren't, like, you know, the United States, or India. Did the US "gain a lot from British rule"? I mean, maybe, that's basically impossible to quantify, but I seriously don't know a single person in the US that is "grateful" for British rule...US schools basically teach that England was pretty evil and that's why we had to separate. While that's almost certainly propaganda and a gross oversimplification of history, the fact remains that the people of the US aren't "grateful" for the British rule, whatever that means.