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> who are vocal online The problem with looking only at people who are vocal online, is that you only see things from a small bubble of people, and only the th

> who are vocal online The problem with looking only at people who are vocal online, is that you only see things from a small bubble of people, and only the things, that don't get downvoted/removed by moderators. If you looked at e.g. reddits users and their comments, Bernie Sanders would be on his way to a second term. Since the article is mentioning ICE, and i'm from a small eu country, really close to relatively shitty non-eu countries, I know that what people say or don't say online is different from what people think in their heads. Being a developer here, and trying to find work in USA is a big pain in the ass... if you're a good developer, but without a formal education, might be even impossible. Even if you have everything, have a good resume, big projects, get invited by facebook/google/whoever, going through the endless stream of bureaucracy takes a lot of time and a lot of money (which is understandable, because hiring local is good for local workers, and importing foreign workforce means lowering pay, due to more supply). When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. They might not say it there, but they say it here.

azangru 6y ago
> If you looked at e.g. reddits users and their comments, Bernie Sanders would be on his way to a second term. And this despite reddit being generally considered more trolly and less left-leaning than, say, twitter, and possibly github. > When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. I hear you. I find it fascinating to hear person after person admit that online spaces have become dominated by particular ideologies, where people holding dissenting views but knowing what's good for them are reluctant to share their opinions. Fifteen to twenty years ago, maybe even ten, it wasn't like that.
- tartoran 6y ago
  I think a lot of people are not against illegal immigration but against the subhuman treatment desperate people who have no other choice receive, it used to be more human. And the fact that the treatment is starting to be reminiscent of nazi concentration camps is a big reason to dissent.
  - ajsnigrutin 6y ago
    I think comparing this to nazis is very bad.... if nazis let jews from outside germany, there illegaly, just go back home whenever they wanted, and at worse, send them back themselves, history would be a lot different.
quercusgrisea 6y ago
>When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. They might not say it there, but they say it here. Surely you realize that the people who come to the US without documents aren't doing the same job or getting close to the same compensation as you? If you want to pay a smuggler a few thousand dollars so you can work in a meat packing plant and risk you and your kids being locked up at any time, you can also follow their path. The fact that this is the best option for these people should tell you something about the circumstances they are in and how they differ from yours.
- ajsnigrutin 6y ago
  Why wouldnt that meat packing plant pay a local worker a fair wage?
  - edoceo 6y ago
    The capitalist can get cheaper labour. Why pay a fair wage when they could get advantage by paying un-fair wage - with no risk
    - ajsnigrutin 6y ago
      I lived in a former communist country ("former" in both ways... not communist anymore, and also, I haven't moved, the country just doesn't exist anymore). Wanting to get cheaper labour is universal, capitalism has nothing to do with that.
  - quercusgrisea 6y ago
    Because they have no incentive to? Not sure what that question has to do with my response. I'll try making my point in a different way. You seem to have some kind of resentment for undocumented immigrants because you went through a long immigration process and they didn't, and now you both work in the US. My point is that the facts that you're both immigrants and work in the US are the only similarities. They have to work hard jobs for little pay, and look over their shoulders for their whole lives knowing they could be locked up at any moment. They're not getting the same reward that you did for going through the immigration process. You don't have anything to be resentful towards them about.

azangru 6y ago

> If you looked at e.g. reddits users and their comments, Bernie Sanders would be on his way to a second term. And this despite reddit being generally considered more trolly and less left-leaning than, say, twitter, and possibly github. > When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. I hear you. I find it fascinating to hear person after person admit that online spaces have become dominated by particular ideologies, where people holding dissenting views but knowing what's good for them are reluctant to share their opinions. Fifteen to twenty years ago, maybe even ten, it wasn't like that.

tartoran 6y ago
I think a lot of people are not against illegal immigration but against the subhuman treatment desperate people who have no other choice receive, it used to be more human. And the fact that the treatment is starting to be reminiscent of nazi concentration camps is a big reason to dissent.
- ajsnigrutin 6y ago
  I think comparing this to nazis is very bad.... if nazis let jews from outside germany, there illegaly, just go back home whenever they wanted, and at worse, send them back themselves, history would be a lot different.

quercusgrisea 6y ago

>When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. They might not say it there, but they say it here. Surely you realize that the people who come to the US without documents aren't doing the same job or getting close to the same compensation as you? If you want to pay a smuggler a few thousand dollars so you can work in a meat packing plant and risk you and your kids being locked up at any time, you can also follow their path. The fact that this is the best option for these people should tell you something about the circumstances they are in and how they differ from yours.

ajsnigrutin 6y ago
Why wouldnt that meat packing plant pay a local worker a fair wage?
- edoceo 6y ago
  The capitalist can get cheaper labour. Why pay a fair wage when they could get advantage by paying un-fair wage - with no risk
  - ajsnigrutin 6y ago
    I lived in a former communist country ("former" in both ways... not communist anymore, and also, I haven't moved, the country just doesn't exist anymore). Wanting to get cheaper labour is universal, capitalism has nothing to do with that.
- quercusgrisea 6y ago
  Because they have no incentive to? Not sure what that question has to do with my response. I'll try making my point in a different way. You seem to have some kind of resentment for undocumented immigrants because you went through a long immigration process and they didn't, and now you both work in the US. My point is that the facts that you're both immigrants and work in the US are the only similarities. They have to work hard jobs for little pay, and look over their shoulders for their whole lives knowing they could be locked up at any moment. They're not getting the same reward that you did for going through the immigration process. You don't have anything to be resentful towards them about.