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Really? That's not the impression that I'm getting from observing developer discussions on social media, including here, on HN. The impression I am getting is t

Really? That's not the impression that I'm getting from observing developer discussions on social media, including here, on HN. The impression I am getting is that an overwhelming majority of developers who are vocal online share left democratic values and thus resent Palantir. (They've recently started to be resentful of Facebook as well, although I haven't heard of a mass exodus of developers from there.) Do you have a sample of developers who express diametrically opposite views?

secondcoming 6y ago
Nobody in their right mind would publically express these views in today's Cancel Culture witch-hunting climate. You're probably in a bubble of like-minded people, and mistakingly extrapolating the views expressed in that bubble to the whole developer community.
- azangru 6y ago
  > You're probably in a bubble of like-minded people I don't think I'm IN it; I am observing it from the outside, and would love to find an opposite bubble to observe too, but just can't.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - 0xy 6y ago
    If you think that James Damore had universal disagreement among his peers then you're in a bubble. Ask yourself why they would bother to speak up when hundreds of thousands of dollars and their career is on the line.
  - SuoDuanDao 6y ago
    Try Gab.
hombre_fatal 6y ago
I bet most HNers don't even know what Palantir is much less why it would be wrapped up in any controversy. I'd be wary of extrapolating much from online bubbles. Btw I don't think I speak for a minority of HNers when I say that it's not that easy to find a "good" job, whatever that could mean. For example, simply wanting a fully remote job already damns you to a tiny minority of US jobs, especially pre-Covid. Even a so-called "bad" company doesn't need to check many boxes to be one of someone's few options, so it always seems quite premature to claim that nobody would want to work at said company. Hell, if you even particularly enjoy your job, you've hit jackpot as far as many of us are concerned. Sometimes statements about what fellow developers will or won't do make us all sound like millionaires looking for our next hobby.
- notional 6y ago
  > I bet most HNers don't even know what Palantir is much less why it would be wrapped up in any controversy. 615 stories posted here, https://hn.algolia.com/?q=Palantir https://hn.algolia.com/?q=Palantir Pretty sure everyone on this startup tech discussion board has heard of them.
0xy 6y ago
This is a sign you're living in a bubble. If you're a high performer on a FB/G ad team, you're earning half a million dollars a year. Morals don't usually survive that amount of bribery. These teams have thousands of employees. Palantir has 2,500 employees. Obviously they have no trouble hiring. Facebook and Google have ad teams with tens of thousands of people. Juul managed to hire swathes of people, etc.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ajsnigrutin 6y ago
> who are vocal online The problem with looking only at people who are vocal online, is that you only see things from a small bubble of people, and only the things, that don't get downvoted/removed by moderators. If you looked at e.g. reddits users and their comments, Bernie Sanders would be on his way to a second term. Since the article is mentioning ICE, and i'm from a small eu country, really close to relatively shitty non-eu countries, I know that what people say or don't say online is different from what people think in their heads. Being a developer here, and trying to find work in USA is a big pain in the ass... if you're a good developer, but without a formal education, might be even impossible. Even if you have everything, have a good resume, big projects, get invited by facebook/google/whoever, going through the endless stream of bureaucracy takes a lot of time and a lot of money (which is understandable, because hiring local is good for local workers, and importing foreign workforce means lowering pay, due to more supply). When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. They might not say it there, but they say it here.
- azangru 6y ago
  > If you looked at e.g. reddits users and their comments, Bernie Sanders would be on his way to a second term. And this despite reddit being generally considered more trolly and less left-leaning than, say, twitter, and possibly github. > When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. I hear you. I find it fascinating to hear person after person admit that online spaces have become dominated by particular ideologies, where people holding dissenting views but knowing what's good for them are reluctant to share their opinions. Fifteen to twenty years ago, maybe even ten, it wasn't like that.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    I think a lot of people are not against illegal immigration but against the subhuman treatment desperate people who have no other choice receive, it used to be more human. And the fact that the treatment is starting to be reminiscent of nazi concentration camps is a big reason to dissent.

secondcoming 6y ago

Nobody in their right mind would publically express these views in today's Cancel Culture witch-hunting climate. You're probably in a bubble of like-minded people, and mistakingly extrapolating the views expressed in that bubble to the whole developer community.

azangru 6y ago
> You're probably in a bubble of like-minded people I don't think I'm IN it; I am observing it from the outside, and would love to find an opposite bubble to observe too, but just can't.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- 0xy 6y ago
  If you think that James Damore had universal disagreement among his peers then you're in a bubble. Ask yourself why they would bother to speak up when hundreds of thousands of dollars and their career is on the line.
- SuoDuanDao 6y ago
  Try Gab.

hombre_fatal 6y ago

I bet most HNers don't even know what Palantir is much less why it would be wrapped up in any controversy. I'd be wary of extrapolating much from online bubbles. Btw I don't think I speak for a minority of HNers when I say that it's not that easy to find a "good" job, whatever that could mean. For example, simply wanting a fully remote job already damns you to a tiny minority of US jobs, especially pre-Covid. Even a so-called "bad" company doesn't need to check many boxes to be one of someone's few options, so it always seems quite premature to claim that nobody would want to work at said company. Hell, if you even particularly enjoy your job, you've hit jackpot as far as many of us are concerned. Sometimes statements about what fellow developers will or won't do make us all sound like millionaires looking for our next hobby.

notional 6y ago
> I bet most HNers don't even know what Palantir is much less why it would be wrapped up in any controversy. 615 stories posted here, https://hn.algolia.com/?q=Palantir https://hn.algolia.com/?q=Palantir Pretty sure everyone on this startup tech discussion board has heard of them.

0xy 6y ago

This is a sign you're living in a bubble. If you're a high performer on a FB/G ad team, you're earning half a million dollars a year. Morals don't usually survive that amount of bribery. These teams have thousands of employees. Palantir has 2,500 employees. Obviously they have no trouble hiring. Facebook and Google have ad teams with tens of thousands of people. Juul managed to hire swathes of people, etc.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ajsnigrutin 6y ago

> who are vocal online The problem with looking only at people who are vocal online, is that you only see things from a small bubble of people, and only the things, that don't get downvoted/removed by moderators. If you looked at e.g. reddits users and their comments, Bernie Sanders would be on his way to a second term. Since the article is mentioning ICE, and i'm from a small eu country, really close to relatively shitty non-eu countries, I know that what people say or don't say online is different from what people think in their heads. Being a developer here, and trying to find work in USA is a big pain in the ass... if you're a good developer, but without a formal education, might be even impossible. Even if you have everything, have a good resume, big projects, get invited by facebook/google/whoever, going through the endless stream of bureaucracy takes a lot of time and a lot of money (which is understandable, because hiring local is good for local workers, and importing foreign workforce means lowering pay, due to more supply). When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. They might not say it there, but they say it here.

azangru 6y ago
> If you looked at e.g. reddits users and their comments, Bernie Sanders would be on his way to a second term. And this despite reddit being generally considered more trolly and less left-leaning than, say, twitter, and possibly github. > When such people get their papers, green cards, and work in USA for some time, their opinion on illegal immigrants, who skip the whole process (and sometimes even get praised for that) is a lot different than the comments you see on reddit. I hear you. I find it fascinating to hear person after person admit that online spaces have become dominated by particular ideologies, where people holding dissenting views but knowing what's good for them are reluctant to share their opinions. Fifteen to twenty years ago, maybe even ten, it wasn't like that.
- tartoran 6y ago
  I think a lot of people are not against illegal immigration but against the subhuman treatment desperate people who have no other choice receive, it used to be more human. And the fact that the treatment is starting to be reminiscent of nazi concentration camps is a big reason to dissent.