4 ms·

> However the FTTP ONT meant I was using up an additional ethernet port on the router, and I was already short You do not need an ONT if you have an SFP slot a

by LeonM 6y ago

> However the FTTP ONT meant I was using up an additional ethernet port on the router, and I was already short You do not need an ONT if you have an SFP slot available. Get a suitable SFP module for your fiber type, and you can plug the fiber directly into your router. This safes you a little bit of power, latency and space. Overall I find it to be a more elegant solution.

vetinari 6y ago
Depends on the ONT. With GPON, it is not that simple. Many ISPs will refuse connecting anything but their ONT to their network. And they have a point: the devices are not that compatible as they should be, and most of them will not work with their TRS069 system as the supplied CPE does.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  I've seen commercial ISPs (Orang France for instance) provide SFP connectors to plug into their routers. This is nice, as you can just plug that SFP inside your own. As an aside, I do not have a SFP-capable router, but I have a few SFP slots on my managed switch. I've been toying with the idea of putting one in a dedicated VLAN with the WAN port of my router, with another ethernet cable connecting to the LAN port. I might also get away with using only one ethernet port if using tagged VLANs, but that would limit the bandwidth.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    Orange France does that??? In my experience, Orange Slovakia refuses to do that; they have their Huawei OLTs, hand out Huawei ONTs and they only thing they were willing to do is switching the ONT to bridge mode. That's not all: you cannot use any Huawei ONT, even if it is the same model as they use. You must use one provided by them. They are activated by serial numbers and they won't activate it if isn't their. So for a long time I had a router with SFP interface, but it was useless and I had to run the ONT next to it anyway. On similar topic: how is IPTV done in France? Here, it looks like IGMP, the ONT does IGMP proxying and the upstream interface for the multicast subnet is a separate VLAN. (This is something, that many routers have problem with).
    - liotier 6y ago
      > Orange France does that??? I confirm they do. They have to support enterprise-lite setups on the same GPON as the standard consumer stuff.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      I know, with Alcatel-Lucent-Nokia, you can get their SFP, and reflash their OMCI config vars, and LOID from their router into it. If you can get config GPON OMCI strings from your router, maybe this will work for you.
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      > Orange France does that??? I've seen both, it might depend on the location, or other factors. Maybe you could ask explicitly? See there: https://lafibre.info/orange-les-news/show-hello-2016/ https://lafibre.info/orange-les-news/show-hello-2016/ That website also has a lot of information (in French) regarding ISP configs, and I think it would answer your question regarding IPTV. There is a whole section dedicated to replacing the box with a custom router: https://lafibre.info/remplacer-livebox/ https://lafibre.info/remplacer-livebox/ It looks like there is a VLAN (840) for multicast TV, and another for VoD (838). There are a few vendor-specific field the DHCP server has to pass the decoder if you want that to work. From one of the topics on that website, this English document is linked, which could be useful: https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/how-tos/orange_fr_tvf.html https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/how-tos/orange_fr_tvf.html
  - LeonM 6y ago
    > I've seen commercial ISPs (Orang France for instance) provide SFP connectors to plug into their routers. Same here. I use the SFP module that came with the router from my ISP. I was unhappy with the quality of the ISP supplied router, and the fact that it ran a 6 year old custom image which was vulnerable to the KRACK attack. Since my ISP does not allow upgrading the firmware, I decided to ditch their router completely. I plugged my ISP's SFP module into my own Ubiquity device and it works flawless.
  - jlgaddis 6y ago
    > I've been toying with the idea of putting one in a dedicated VLAN with the WAN port of my router, with another ethernet cable connecting to the LAN port. That's what I'd like to do, but I haven't bothered to get a bi-directional SFP for my switch. Soon... > I might also get away with using only one ethernet port ... I would definitely avoid that at all costs! Exposing your internal network to your ISP's network is a really bad idea. With a managed switch, you'll want to disable as much of the "link-local" and other layer 2 "noise" as you can (e.g., CDP, LLDP, STP, etc.). You may need to enable 802.1Q on your upstream-facing switchport anyways (and configure VLAN IDs, of course), but this would depend on your ISP's configuration. Either way, I'd still use a separate physical cable (between the router and switch) just for the "LAN side" -- if you weigh the pros and cons, it's a no-brainer!
    - baybal2 6y ago
      > I would definitely avoid that at all costs! Exposing your internal network to your ISP's network is a really bad idea. I have yet to see a single ISP that doesn't do it on their own side.
    - MayeulC 6y ago
      Hmm, I think it would not necessarily expose the rest of the network, though: if the router supports it, I would use a tagged vlan (let's say wan.42) as the upstream connection, and wan.10 as a lan port, part of the switched interfaces. On the switch side, I'd have put the SFP connector inside VLAN 42, untagged, and put every other port in VLAN 10, untagged. There are probably a couple other ways to achieve this, and ISPs sometimes use tagged VLANs as well. But I think that could work (I have little experience with VLANs, so I might be wrong, feel free to point it out to me). On the other hand, if I had gigabit fiber, a single cable would halve my bandwidth. And I'd pick the multiple cable option over the other as long as I can afford it (enough ports)! Thanks for pointing out the layer 2 "noise". I wonder if my switch wouldn't support bridging together two ports, I think it runs Linux...
- baybal2 6y ago
  > Depends on the ONT. With GPON, it is not that simple. Many ISPs will refuse connecting anything but their ONT to their network. Having this exact issue in a place where I got stuck now. GPON hardware makers are artificially limiting interoperability, while the underlying hardware is fully capable of that. GPON has a out of band configuration protocol which is usually unavailable to the OS. Here they put their vendor ID block. Huawei is a virtual monopoly in GPON, and they strike such deals where they block competitors in exchange for discount left, and right. GePON is by far better in this regard as it had no technical provisions for anything like this to start with.

by LeonM 6y ago

vetinari 6y ago

Depends on the ONT. With GPON, it is not that simple. Many ISPs will refuse connecting anything but their ONT to their network. And they have a point: the devices are not that compatible as they should be, and most of them will not work with their TRS069 system as the supplied CPE does.

MayeulC 6y ago
I've seen commercial ISPs (Orang France for instance) provide SFP connectors to plug into their routers. This is nice, as you can just plug that SFP inside your own. As an aside, I do not have a SFP-capable router, but I have a few SFP slots on my managed switch. I've been toying with the idea of putting one in a dedicated VLAN with the WAN port of my router, with another ethernet cable connecting to the LAN port. I might also get away with using only one ethernet port if using tagged VLANs, but that would limit the bandwidth.
- vetinari 6y ago
  Orange France does that??? In my experience, Orange Slovakia refuses to do that; they have their Huawei OLTs, hand out Huawei ONTs and they only thing they were willing to do is switching the ONT to bridge mode. That's not all: you cannot use any Huawei ONT, even if it is the same model as they use. You must use one provided by them. They are activated by serial numbers and they won't activate it if isn't their. So for a long time I had a router with SFP interface, but it was useless and I had to run the ONT next to it anyway. On similar topic: how is IPTV done in France? Here, it looks like IGMP, the ONT does IGMP proxying and the upstream interface for the multicast subnet is a separate VLAN. (This is something, that many routers have problem with).
  - liotier 6y ago
    > Orange France does that??? I confirm they do. They have to support enterprise-lite setups on the same GPON as the standard consumer stuff.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    I know, with Alcatel-Lucent-Nokia, you can get their SFP, and reflash their OMCI config vars, and LOID from their router into it. If you can get config GPON OMCI strings from your router, maybe this will work for you.
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    > Orange France does that??? I've seen both, it might depend on the location, or other factors. Maybe you could ask explicitly? See there: https://lafibre.info/orange-les-news/show-hello-2016/ https://lafibre.info/orange-les-news/show-hello-2016/ That website also has a lot of information (in French) regarding ISP configs, and I think it would answer your question regarding IPTV. There is a whole section dedicated to replacing the box with a custom router: https://lafibre.info/remplacer-livebox/ https://lafibre.info/remplacer-livebox/ It looks like there is a VLAN (840) for multicast TV, and another for VoD (838). There are a few vendor-specific field the DHCP server has to pass the decoder if you want that to work. From one of the topics on that website, this English document is linked, which could be useful: https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/how-tos/orange_fr_tvf.html https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/how-tos/orange_fr_tvf.html
- LeonM 6y ago
  > I've seen commercial ISPs (Orang France for instance) provide SFP connectors to plug into their routers. Same here. I use the SFP module that came with the router from my ISP. I was unhappy with the quality of the ISP supplied router, and the fact that it ran a 6 year old custom image which was vulnerable to the KRACK attack. Since my ISP does not allow upgrading the firmware, I decided to ditch their router completely. I plugged my ISP's SFP module into my own Ubiquity device and it works flawless.
- jlgaddis 6y ago
  > I've been toying with the idea of putting one in a dedicated VLAN with the WAN port of my router, with another ethernet cable connecting to the LAN port. That's what I'd like to do, but I haven't bothered to get a bi-directional SFP for my switch. Soon... > I might also get away with using only one ethernet port ... I would definitely avoid that at all costs! Exposing your internal network to your ISP's network is a really bad idea. With a managed switch, you'll want to disable as much of the "link-local" and other layer 2 "noise" as you can (e.g., CDP, LLDP, STP, etc.). You may need to enable 802.1Q on your upstream-facing switchport anyways (and configure VLAN IDs, of course), but this would depend on your ISP's configuration. Either way, I'd still use a separate physical cable (between the router and switch) just for the "LAN side" -- if you weigh the pros and cons, it's a no-brainer!
  - baybal2 6y ago
    > I would definitely avoid that at all costs! Exposing your internal network to your ISP's network is a really bad idea. I have yet to see a single ISP that doesn't do it on their own side.
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    Hmm, I think it would not necessarily expose the rest of the network, though: if the router supports it, I would use a tagged vlan (let's say wan.42) as the upstream connection, and wan.10 as a lan port, part of the switched interfaces. On the switch side, I'd have put the SFP connector inside VLAN 42, untagged, and put every other port in VLAN 10, untagged. There are probably a couple other ways to achieve this, and ISPs sometimes use tagged VLANs as well. But I think that could work (I have little experience with VLANs, so I might be wrong, feel free to point it out to me). On the other hand, if I had gigabit fiber, a single cable would halve my bandwidth. And I'd pick the multiple cable option over the other as long as I can afford it (enough ports)! Thanks for pointing out the layer 2 "noise". I wonder if my switch wouldn't support bridging together two ports, I think it runs Linux...
baybal2 6y ago
> Depends on the ONT. With GPON, it is not that simple. Many ISPs will refuse connecting anything but their ONT to their network. Having this exact issue in a place where I got stuck now. GPON hardware makers are artificially limiting interoperability, while the underlying hardware is fully capable of that. GPON has a out of band configuration protocol which is usually unavailable to the OS. Here they put their vendor ID block. Huawei is a virtual monopoly in GPON, and they strike such deals where they block competitors in exchange for discount left, and right. GePON is by far better in this regard as it had no technical provisions for anything like this to start with.