4 ms·

Done right, it's the opposite for me. Those monkeys can live a happy life in the same way as an ox that pulls a tiller.

tasogare 6y ago
Ox, horses, nowadays service dogs, animals have been used for a long time as workers in the West. I find the double standard incredible here, especially since it’s impacting very negatively the economy of a developing country. Making a label and the related checks about monkey abuse would be enough to solve the problem without banning their use.
berkes 6y ago
An ox is forcibly neutered, then forced, often with a torturing device (whips, nose rings etc), to toil in the burning sun for days. Untill his joints give up, and he is killed. I know I'm excaggerating. But it annoys me to no end that we came to think this is 'a happy life' in any remote sense. An ox, to me, is on the furthest part of the spectrum of forced labor. I found Harari's Book 'Sapien' very enlightening on the parts about the history of human abuse to animals. Oxen get a honorary mention.
- iratewizard 6y ago
  How often do oxen work longer days than the farmer himself?
  - berkes 6y ago
    When an Ox is a community asset and not owned by a single farmer. Which, I imagine, is or was quite often the case. I'm no historian nor a farming-expert, so I'm really just guessing.
wraptile 6y ago
> Those monkeys can live a happy life in the same way as an ox that pulls a tiller. Those are very strong implications you are making. What makes you think an ox that pulls a tiller is _happy_? Generally enslaving an animal to do something is considered unethical. How we much of "unethical" we accept as a society is a completely different matter though.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > Generally enslaving an animal to do something is considered unethical. This is about as far from the truth as it's possible to be.
dharma1 6y ago
These are wild animals who are abducted and then chained to do forced labour. It doesn't sound like a happy life and if they had a choice in the matter, I doubt they would volunteer
- iratewizard 6y ago
  All of the pets in your home wouldn't choose to live with you if they weren't conditioned to already. You would need to abduct them one way or another. They wouldn't volunteer to become food, either. Getting caught by another animal mean becoming food is the alternative to forced labor.

Ox, horses, nowadays service dogs, animals have been used for a long time as workers in the West. I find the double standard incredible here, especially since it’s impacting very negatively the economy of a developing country. Making a label and the related checks about monkey abuse would be enough to solve the problem without banning their use.

berkes 6y ago

An ox is forcibly neutered, then forced, often with a torturing device (whips, nose rings etc), to toil in the burning sun for days. Untill his joints give up, and he is killed. I know I'm excaggerating. But it annoys me to no end that we came to think this is 'a happy life' in any remote sense. An ox, to me, is on the furthest part of the spectrum of forced labor. I found Harari's Book 'Sapien' very enlightening on the parts about the history of human abuse to animals. Oxen get a honorary mention.

iratewizard 6y ago
How often do oxen work longer days than the farmer himself?
- berkes 6y ago
  When an Ox is a community asset and not owned by a single farmer. Which, I imagine, is or was quite often the case. I'm no historian nor a farming-expert, so I'm really just guessing.

wraptile 6y ago

> Those monkeys can live a happy life in the same way as an ox that pulls a tiller. Those are very strong implications you are making. What makes you think an ox that pulls a tiller is _happy_? Generally enslaving an animal to do something is considered unethical. How we much of "unethical" we accept as a society is a completely different matter though.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> Generally enslaving an animal to do something is considered unethical. This is about as far from the truth as it's possible to be.

dharma1 6y ago

These are wild animals who are abducted and then chained to do forced labour. It doesn't sound like a happy life and if they had a choice in the matter, I doubt they would volunteer

iratewizard 6y ago
All of the pets in your home wouldn't choose to live with you if they weren't conditioned to already. You would need to abduct them one way or another. They wouldn't volunteer to become food, either. Getting caught by another animal mean becoming food is the alternative to forced labor.