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Many people have more empathy for animals than for humans. The idea of a monkey forced/encouraged to climb a tree for a coconut tugs at their heartstrings the w
by ponker 6y ago
Many people have more empathy for animals than for humans. The idea of a monkey forced/encouraged to climb a tree for a coconut tugs at their heartstrings the way a person does not.
- iratewizard 6y agoDone right, it's the opposite for me. Those monkeys can live a happy life in the same way as an ox that pulls a tiller.
- tasogare 6y agoOx, horses, nowadays service dogs, animals have been used for a long time as workers in the West. I find the double standard incredible here, especially since it’s impacting very negatively the economy of a developing country. Making a label and the related checks about monkey abuse would be enough to solve the problem without banning their use.
- berkes 6y agoAn ox is forcibly neutered, then forced, often with a torturing device (whips, nose rings etc), to toil in the burning sun for days. Untill his joints give up, and he is killed. I know I'm excaggerating. But it annoys me to no end that we came to think this is 'a happy life' in any remote sense. An ox, to me, is on the furthest part of the spectrum of forced labor. I found Harari's Book 'Sapien' very enlightening on the parts about the history of human abuse to animals. Oxen get a honorary mention.
- iratewizard 6y agoHow often do oxen work longer days than the farmer himself?
- berkes 6y agoWhen an Ox is a community asset and not owned by a single farmer. Which, I imagine, is or was quite often the case. I'm no historian nor a farming-expert, so I'm really just guessing.
- wraptile 6y ago> Those monkeys can live a happy life in the same way as an ox that pulls a tiller. Those are very strong implications you are making. What makes you think an ox that pulls a tiller is _happy_? Generally enslaving an animal to do something is considered unethical. How we much of "unethical" we accept as a society is a completely different matter though.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago> Generally enslaving an animal to do something is considered unethical. This is about as far from the truth as it's possible to be.
- dharma1 6y agoThese are wild animals who are abducted and then chained to do forced labour. It doesn't sound like a happy life and if they had a choice in the matter, I doubt they would volunteer
- iratewizard 6y agoAll of the pets in your home wouldn't choose to live with you if they weren't conditioned to already. You would need to abduct them one way or another. They wouldn't volunteer to become food, either. Getting caught by another animal mean becoming food is the alternative to forced labor.
- vinay427 6y agoIt seems like you're answering on behalf of a large group of people with differing views that your comment doesn't at all reflect. I, for one, oppose this monkey labor and I would argue I don't have more empathy for "animals than for humans." I try to be equal in many respects and would oppose humans being coerced into doing this as well. It's why I oppose slavery, for instance.
- ponker 6y agoI didn't say you -- I said many people.
- vinay427 6y agoNormally I would agree, but you answered a question asking what the problem would be with this approach, and I think it's reasonable to then read "many people" as referring to "those that oppose monkey labor." Maybe you didn't mean that, however, so I'll of course allow for the benefit of the doubt.
- pkphilip 6y agoWhy would you have an issue with monkey labour when bulls et are routinely used for farming and transportation in India?
- seszett 6y agoWhy would you think they don't have an issue with both?
- vinay427 6y agoIf I understand your point correctly that monkey labor in Thailand is fine because bulls are used for labor in India, I don't follow. Why are using bulls in India justified for you, and why does that justify monkeys in Thailand? As the other commenter said, why would you assume I even have an opinion on Indian bulls, let alone supporting their labor?
- 6y ago
- hombre_fatal 6y agoNot sure this is the best place to belabor ethics, but the reason it may seem someone has more empathy for animals is because animals are fully helpless to understand what's being imposed upon them, and they are always in an enslaved relationship with us. Free human adults may be the victim of a circumstance that has them shambling up coconut trees, but they have an end to end understanding of why they're doing it, and they still have a domain of choice that's always broader than that of any animal and the enslaved. I don't think too many people who are against animal labor are for human slavery. Free humans who get to tacitly choose which crappy job to do in their squalor still much more power than the enslaved. We can even reach self-actualization as long as we are given the illusion of free choice among bad options. Rescuing lower sentience from slavery comes before rescuing free humans from crappy choices, imo.
- syedkarim 6y agoIsn’t it selective empathy for animals. Just look at the popularity of animal food-products.