4 ms·

How long do you think it takes to release a working prototype when you already have one?

adamnemecek 6y ago
Maybe he has different standards than you? I assume Jai will be similar to his games as far as attention to details goes. I would describe his games as having a maniacal attention to detail.
- the_hoser 6y ago
  Then maybe he should handle Jai like he handles his games. Don't talk about it until it's almost ready to go.
  - adamnemecek 6y ago
    Why do you care?
    - the_hoser 6y ago
      Because of people bringing him up as some kind of established PL designer when talking about PL design. He's created almost a cult-like following around this semi-vaporous programming language, and almost none of the people talking about it have ever even used it.
  - ratww 6y ago
    It's his hobby/passion project, I really don't understand your objection. You seem to have a problem with the fact he criticises other languages. Would you also treat someone who isn't currently designing a language with the same harshness if they also criticised a language the way Jonathan Blow does?
    - the_hoser 6y ago
      If they're claiming to be a PL designer when doing so? Yeah, probably.
      - ratww 6y ago
        But he is designing a programming language. Even if it's all a fantasy or a Python script, like you claim, there's still a design. His opinions and views on PL design are still up to scrutiny, so it's not a glass house like you claim. PL design is not compiler writing. You're free to implement all his ideas and write a Jai compiler yourself if you need a proper compiler in your hands to properly criticise the language. And frankly, the only thing mentioned on this thread about "80% features" is not as controversial as you're making it. Nobody here is claiming it as revolutionary or game-changing, so even if you're right, your posts are a bit uncalled for.
  - WhyNott 6y ago
    ...Except that he did talk about all of his games almost from the get go? He showed earliest prototypes of Braid and Witness publicaly when the games were just blocky protypes, in the latter case good 7 years before the game came out. I don't know where you got this idea from, the way he is handling the development of the language seems to be pretty much an extension of how he develops his games.
- ratww 6y ago
  Maniacal attention to detail in products is very rare those days. As a born perfectionist I wish I could afford it for myself, honestly.
saagarjha 6y ago
But he doesn't want to release a "working prototype", he wants to release a finished, polished language.
- the_hoser 6y ago
  The only kind of programming language that is ever "finished" are ones that nobody uses.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    C was largely "finished" when it came out–future additions have not added much. And by "finished" I don't mean "never changes", I mean "finished enough for a 1.0".
    - the_hoser 6y ago
      That's not true at all. Modern C is very different from K&R C. It took 10 years for ANSI C (which is more or less what we know as C today) to be established. And embarrassingly longer for that standard to be widely implemented...
      - saagarjha 6y ago
        > Modern C is very different from K&R C. Aside from some syntax around function prototypes, it's really not, unless you are counting "people tend to use certain things less often" as how you're counting that difference.
        the_hoser 6y ago
        You are aware that the standard library is a big part of the C specification, right?
        saagarjha 6y ago
        If you're counting the language by "how many pages of specification" it takes up, perhaps. To me is the language is really like the many features it had when it came out, and then the standard library improvements since then have been "string routines" and then "more string routines" and then "atomics, and also some string routines". Now C++, that's a language that has changed a huge deal–your C++03 code is obviously out-of-place in a C++11 codebase, but nobody will bat an eye if you drop some C89 code in a C11 project.

Maybe he has different standards than you? I assume Jai will be similar to his games as far as attention to details goes. I would describe his games as having a maniacal attention to detail.

the_hoser 6y ago
Then maybe he should handle Jai like he handles his games. Don't talk about it until it's almost ready to go.
- adamnemecek 6y ago
  Why do you care?
  - the_hoser 6y ago
    Because of people bringing him up as some kind of established PL designer when talking about PL design. He's created almost a cult-like following around this semi-vaporous programming language, and almost none of the people talking about it have ever even used it.
- ratww 6y ago
  It's his hobby/passion project, I really don't understand your objection. You seem to have a problem with the fact he criticises other languages. Would you also treat someone who isn't currently designing a language with the same harshness if they also criticised a language the way Jonathan Blow does?
  - the_hoser 6y ago
    If they're claiming to be a PL designer when doing so? Yeah, probably.
    - ratww 6y ago
      But he is designing a programming language. Even if it's all a fantasy or a Python script, like you claim, there's still a design. His opinions and views on PL design are still up to scrutiny, so it's not a glass house like you claim. PL design is not compiler writing. You're free to implement all his ideas and write a Jai compiler yourself if you need a proper compiler in your hands to properly criticise the language. And frankly, the only thing mentioned on this thread about "80% features" is not as controversial as you're making it. Nobody here is claiming it as revolutionary or game-changing, so even if you're right, your posts are a bit uncalled for.
- WhyNott 6y ago
  ...Except that he did talk about all of his games almost from the get go? He showed earliest prototypes of Braid and Witness publicaly when the games were just blocky protypes, in the latter case good 7 years before the game came out. I don't know where you got this idea from, the way he is handling the development of the language seems to be pretty much an extension of how he develops his games.
ratww 6y ago
Maniacal attention to detail in products is very rare those days. As a born perfectionist I wish I could afford it for myself, honestly.

saagarjha 6y ago

But he doesn't want to release a "working prototype", he wants to release a finished, polished language.

the_hoser 6y ago
The only kind of programming language that is ever "finished" are ones that nobody uses.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  C was largely "finished" when it came out–future additions have not added much. And by "finished" I don't mean "never changes", I mean "finished enough for a 1.0".
  - the_hoser 6y ago
    That's not true at all. Modern C is very different from K&R C. It took 10 years for ANSI C (which is more or less what we know as C today) to be established. And embarrassingly longer for that standard to be widely implemented...
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      > Modern C is very different from K&R C. Aside from some syntax around function prototypes, it's really not, unless you are counting "people tend to use certain things less often" as how you're counting that difference.
      - the_hoser 6y ago
        You are aware that the standard library is a big part of the C specification, right?
        saagarjha 6y ago
        If you're counting the language by "how many pages of specification" it takes up, perhaps. To me is the language is really like the many features it had when it came out, and then the standard library improvements since then have been "string routines" and then "more string routines" and then "atomics, and also some string routines". Now C++, that's a language that has changed a huge deal–your C++03 code is obviously out-of-place in a C++11 codebase, but nobody will bat an eye if you drop some C89 code in a C11 project.