4 ms·

I think there is a big difference between a meeting with one other person - as the author describes - and a corporate meeting of 3 project managers, 2 business

I think there is a big difference between a meeting with one other person - as the author describes - and a corporate meeting of 3 project managers, 2 business analysts, an enterprise architect and 3 engineers who didn't think to reject the meeting they absolutely didn't need to be at. Meeting 1:1 you range all over, I often have meetings with people that go from work, to our kids, to the weekend, to work, back to the kids and then to the pub. All of it is valuable, but not all of it is valuable for work. But a year later when I remember it was that person's eldest's birthday I've made a solid connection. Equally important is that not every brain works the same way, I'd be completely screwed trying to use Vasili's method as I have aphantasia. But that doesn't mean others wouldn't find it useful.

nocman 6y ago
"All of it is valuable, but not all of it is valuable for work." ^ you could make the argument that almost all of it is valuable for work. The connections you make with other people, even on things that do not relate to work, can have a huge impact on your relationship in the workplace. Even the stuff that just seems like nonsense, joking around, crazy dicussions about things that don't really matter much, etc -- sharing those things can be part of building friendship and trust, and that can be of great value for work. Of course, sometimes such things can have a negative effect, depending on the person you are meeting with. So you need to be aware of that. Some people are particularly good at building relationships this way.
quesera 6y ago
> But a year later when I remember it was that person's eldest's birthday I've made a solid connection. Everyone is different, and I applaud you for the effort involved, but I have to confess: This sort of thing mostly creeps me out. There's no way you remembered it organically, which means that you spent the conversation with me trying to identify items of personal interest that you could record and replay for some kind of social benefit/bonding. My advice, and this might be what you do already, is to make sure a) the _thing_ is important enough to remember on its own, and b) your "memory" is vague enough that I don't think you're CRMing me. E.g.: BAD: Hey it's your wife's birthday on Thursday isn't it? Wish her a happy 34th from us! OK: Hey your wife has an autumn birthday, doesn't she? I remember we talked about it last year around this time. Wish her a happy one! GOOD: Oh that's right, we talked about that last year. My wife has an autumn birthday too. Wish her a happy one!
- abalaji 6y ago
  That's certainly one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that the above OP was just being thoughtful.
  - quesera 6y ago
    Recording and replaying opportunities to appear thoughtful, is not thoughtful. It's merely artifice for the purpose of appearing thoughtful, which I find creepy. But as I note in my initial comment: everyone is different.
    - Cogito 6y ago
      Paper, and now computers, are one of the best ways we have learned to augment the human mind. Is it creepy for someone to (with their brain alone) remember a personal detail like a birthday? If not, it shouldn't be creepy to remember it with an augmented brain. There is a fuzziness here when your brain is augmented with information that you didn't have original access to, such as a shared calendar with birthdays on it, but I'm not sure how creepy using that information is - it almost certainly comes down to expectations of privacy with respect to that information.
      - quesera 6y ago
        As I attempted to express in my initial comment, I find it creepy when the details which are remembered exceed the level of expectation for the relationship between the people. Remembering my birthday? Well, I know you wrote it down (or in OP case, it's in the HR file), but we have a relationship that is formalized around paperwork. So OK, whatevs. Remembering my oldest child's birthday? There is no way in hell you remembered that organically. So I'm led to suspect that you made an active effort to log the detail for future use. And I have to envision you, listening to me casually discuss family ephemera, taking notes of items that might have some future value. That's creepy, IMO. But I can accept that different people view it differently. Nevertheless, if your goal is to create a connection between yourself and another person (as indicated in OP comment) -- you will not succeed if you fail to understand your audience. This is the idea I was attempting to express to OP. The other person may choose to overlook your offensiveness, but they will not think more highly of you after the fact, than before. For certain definitions of "other person". Do with that what you will.

nocman 6y ago

"All of it is valuable, but not all of it is valuable for work." ^ you could make the argument that almost all of it is valuable for work. The connections you make with other people, even on things that do not relate to work, can have a huge impact on your relationship in the workplace. Even the stuff that just seems like nonsense, joking around, crazy dicussions about things that don't really matter much, etc -- sharing those things can be part of building friendship and trust, and that can be of great value for work. Of course, sometimes such things can have a negative effect, depending on the person you are meeting with. So you need to be aware of that. Some people are particularly good at building relationships this way.

quesera 6y ago

> But a year later when I remember it was that person's eldest's birthday I've made a solid connection. Everyone is different, and I applaud you for the effort involved, but I have to confess: This sort of thing mostly creeps me out. There's no way you remembered it organically, which means that you spent the conversation with me trying to identify items of personal interest that you could record and replay for some kind of social benefit/bonding. My advice, and this might be what you do already, is to make sure a) the _thing_ is important enough to remember on its own, and b) your "memory" is vague enough that I don't think you're CRMing me. E.g.: BAD: Hey it's your wife's birthday on Thursday isn't it? Wish her a happy 34th from us! OK: Hey your wife has an autumn birthday, doesn't she? I remember we talked about it last year around this time. Wish her a happy one! GOOD: Oh that's right, we talked about that last year. My wife has an autumn birthday too. Wish her a happy one!

abalaji 6y ago
That's certainly one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that the above OP was just being thoughtful.
- quesera 6y ago
  Recording and replaying opportunities to appear thoughtful, is not thoughtful. It's merely artifice for the purpose of appearing thoughtful, which I find creepy. But as I note in my initial comment: everyone is different.
  - Cogito 6y ago
    Paper, and now computers, are one of the best ways we have learned to augment the human mind. Is it creepy for someone to (with their brain alone) remember a personal detail like a birthday? If not, it shouldn't be creepy to remember it with an augmented brain. There is a fuzziness here when your brain is augmented with information that you didn't have original access to, such as a shared calendar with birthdays on it, but I'm not sure how creepy using that information is - it almost certainly comes down to expectations of privacy with respect to that information.
    - quesera 6y ago
      As I attempted to express in my initial comment, I find it creepy when the details which are remembered exceed the level of expectation for the relationship between the people. Remembering my birthday? Well, I know you wrote it down (or in OP case, it's in the HR file), but we have a relationship that is formalized around paperwork. So OK, whatevs. Remembering my oldest child's birthday? There is no way in hell you remembered that organically. So I'm led to suspect that you made an active effort to log the detail for future use. And I have to envision you, listening to me casually discuss family ephemera, taking notes of items that might have some future value. That's creepy, IMO. But I can accept that different people view it differently. Nevertheless, if your goal is to create a connection between yourself and another person (as indicated in OP comment) -- you will not succeed if you fail to understand your audience. This is the idea I was attempting to express to OP. The other person may choose to overlook your offensiveness, but they will not think more highly of you after the fact, than before. For certain definitions of "other person". Do with that what you will.