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If you think that's a perk you don't belong doing that work. It's not the james bond life you think it is and the people who think of it that way are insuffera

If you think that's a perk you don't belong doing that work. It's not the james bond life you think it is and the people who think of it that way are insufferable. Try living in a windowless box for 8 hours a day and having no resume.

balls187 6y ago
Every once in a while you do collect some fun stories. I remember vividly one training session where they explained to us that if an attractive woman approached us, it wasn't because we were particularly interesting. And if that happened we should notify the security group immediately.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I remember in orientation for my first internship the HR lady disparaging Chinese Communist party and the phrase "happy ending" may have made an appearance during that part of the presentation. It was absolutely perfect for the demographics of the audience (a bunch of college kids) but man did it ruin every BigCo orientation since. I think she missed he calling as a comedian or some sort of entertainment professional.
  - balls187 6y ago
    I had one orientation where the presenter showed images of the men and women who had jumped out of the WTC during 9/11 Then he cut to slides with several enemy combatants, followed by a massive explosion, followed by a large smoldering crater, and said "Pay back is a real bitch."
    - jl2718 6y ago
      The most gruesome briefing I remember from the military was the dermatologist prior to fortnight leave.
JackFr 6y ago
And on top of that you can't read HN at work from your air-gapped locked-down PC!
- emmelaich 6y ago
  and you have to leave your mobile phone at the door!
  - Godel_unicode 6y ago
    Is that part really so bad, though?
dgacmu 6y ago
Everyone who deals with company confidential information (hopefully!) understands the 'pause' you experience when having a conversation about related topics with someone outside the company. ("hm, what am I allowed to say here?"). Now imagine it where you have to have the same question even with many people inside your company, and if you f* it up, you can go to jail. And unlike most corporate information, some or most of it will remain classified through the end of your life, and your obligation to keep it confidential never ends. It's a burden.
content_sesh 6y ago
I was told that an active clearance with SSBI can add $30-50k (or something, this was years ago) to your salary. These days that doesn't seem like anything super special given tech salaries in major metros. But it probably goes a real long way in Huntsville, AL or wherever. I remember being emotionally exhausted after a particularly rough week at work, and not being able to talk about it to my wife beyond the barest "yeah, it's been a tough one". It isn't cool or sexy, at best its a layer of inconvenience and red tape over your day-to-day work life. Looking back, it was by far my least favorite job I've ever held
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
thoughtstheseus 6y ago
I think you meant the inverse. If you value optionality to work on government projects that require clearance wouldn’t one view already having said clearance as a perk? If you don’t want to do that work you would not view it as a perk.
- AWildC182 6y ago
  It ropes you into that ecosystem and that ecosystem only. Most consumer/web tech companies won't understand a resume that's just "I did a thing, can't talk about it".
  - thoughtstheseus 6y ago
    Tell that to employees at Lockheed, Boeing, Honeywell, Booz Allen... the list of private enterprises or people engaged in government work requiring clearance is large and varied.
    - AWildC182 6y ago
      They're part of that ecosystem as well. In my experience they're all miserable places to work though, LM in particular.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Have you never hired an ex-Apple employee?
    - AWildC182 6y ago
      Apple employees/people from other NDA obsessed firms have nothing on the cleared workers. Yea they can be cagey but their products eventually ship and they can talk about them. When you're in defense, once your project ships it stays on orbit for a decade or two.
- content_sesh 6y ago
  I'm not trying to nitpick or anything, but to my ears calling a clearance a "perk" speaks to misconceptions about the reality of working in that ecosystem. But job mobility is a real thing, so yeah that's a good point to talk about. I can only speak from the contractor side of things, and it is true that many job openings list "must have active [clearance X]" as a requirement, which certainly keeps the candidate pool to within people already in that community. It takes 12-24 months to get some clearances, with no guarantee that after that time invested, you will actually be approved. So it is a massive gate. But the flip side, as others pointed out, is you have large chunks of time where you cannot talk about what you did in anything approaching the detail someone who worked on a non-cleared job can. Even if you worked on some stealth mode startup's top-secret project, with NDAs and whatnot, there's nothing like the very real threat of decades in federal prison. The best way to avoid falling afoul of an unauthorized disclosure is strongly compartmentalizing your work life - this is strongly encouraged within the industry. You talk about work at work, in a vault where the only other people there are cleared. You STFU everywhere else. Easy and simple to remember. The only time this is _ever_ a problem is when you're trying to get out of the industry, where you must talk about your work experience to potential employers. That's how your perk becomes a trap.
inetsee 6y ago
A position with a defense contractor that requires a special-access clearance can pay very well. The problem is that you very often need to have the clearance to get the job. Getting a special-access clearance for an employee can take six months or more, and there may be some costs involved. Also, there would be that time waiting for the clearance before you could start working on a special-access project. Many (most?) defense contractors would rather pay extra to get someone who already has the clearance.
- refurb 6y ago
  This was my understanding. You basically get the gov't to pay for your clearance (which I hear can take a long time). Once you separate, your clearance can get your jobs in the private sector that people without clearance can't.[1] I'm not saying it's a ticket to being filthy rich, but it opens doors to some lucrative careers that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get. [1]https://www.clearancejobs.com/ https://www.clearancejobs.com/
moandcompany 6y ago
In addition to things people have already commented on, the ability to obtain and maintain a security clearance also comes with requirements such as: being mindful and reporting things like contact with foreign nationals, reporting plans for and completed foreign travel, generally being able to account for your whereabouts during those travels to the day. (Caveat: these are "rules" for regular people that have been given the privilege of holding a US national security clearance. There are many examples of people that have held security clearances that get away with conduct that would otherwise result in revocation and criminal charges for regular persons)

balls187 6y ago

Every once in a while you do collect some fun stories. I remember vividly one training session where they explained to us that if an attractive woman approached us, it wasn't because we were particularly interesting. And if that happened we should notify the security group immediately.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
I remember in orientation for my first internship the HR lady disparaging Chinese Communist party and the phrase "happy ending" may have made an appearance during that part of the presentation. It was absolutely perfect for the demographics of the audience (a bunch of college kids) but man did it ruin every BigCo orientation since. I think she missed he calling as a comedian or some sort of entertainment professional.
- balls187 6y ago
  I had one orientation where the presenter showed images of the men and women who had jumped out of the WTC during 9/11 Then he cut to slides with several enemy combatants, followed by a massive explosion, followed by a large smoldering crater, and said "Pay back is a real bitch."
  - jl2718 6y ago
    The most gruesome briefing I remember from the military was the dermatologist prior to fortnight leave.

JackFr 6y ago

And on top of that you can't read HN at work from your air-gapped locked-down PC!

emmelaich 6y ago
and you have to leave your mobile phone at the door!
- Godel_unicode 6y ago
  Is that part really so bad, though?

dgacmu 6y ago

Everyone who deals with company confidential information (hopefully!) understands the 'pause' you experience when having a conversation about related topics with someone outside the company. ("hm, what am I allowed to say here?"). Now imagine it where you have to have the same question even with many people inside your company, and if you f* it up, you can go to jail. And unlike most corporate information, some or most of it will remain classified through the end of your life, and your obligation to keep it confidential never ends. It's a burden.

content_sesh 6y ago

I was told that an active clearance with SSBI can add $30-50k (or something, this was years ago) to your salary. These days that doesn't seem like anything super special given tech salaries in major metros. But it probably goes a real long way in Huntsville, AL or wherever. I remember being emotionally exhausted after a particularly rough week at work, and not being able to talk about it to my wife beyond the barest "yeah, it's been a tough one". It isn't cool or sexy, at best its a layer of inconvenience and red tape over your day-to-day work life. Looking back, it was by far my least favorite job I've ever held

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

thoughtstheseus 6y ago

I think you meant the inverse. If you value optionality to work on government projects that require clearance wouldn’t one view already having said clearance as a perk? If you don’t want to do that work you would not view it as a perk.

AWildC182 6y ago
It ropes you into that ecosystem and that ecosystem only. Most consumer/web tech companies won't understand a resume that's just "I did a thing, can't talk about it".
- thoughtstheseus 6y ago
  Tell that to employees at Lockheed, Boeing, Honeywell, Booz Allen... the list of private enterprises or people engaged in government work requiring clearance is large and varied.
  - AWildC182 6y ago
    They're part of that ecosystem as well. In my experience they're all miserable places to work though, LM in particular.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Have you never hired an ex-Apple employee?
  - AWildC182 6y ago
    Apple employees/people from other NDA obsessed firms have nothing on the cleared workers. Yea they can be cagey but their products eventually ship and they can talk about them. When you're in defense, once your project ships it stays on orbit for a decade or two.
content_sesh 6y ago
I'm not trying to nitpick or anything, but to my ears calling a clearance a "perk" speaks to misconceptions about the reality of working in that ecosystem. But job mobility is a real thing, so yeah that's a good point to talk about. I can only speak from the contractor side of things, and it is true that many job openings list "must have active [clearance X]" as a requirement, which certainly keeps the candidate pool to within people already in that community. It takes 12-24 months to get some clearances, with no guarantee that after that time invested, you will actually be approved. So it is a massive gate. But the flip side, as others pointed out, is you have large chunks of time where you cannot talk about what you did in anything approaching the detail someone who worked on a non-cleared job can. Even if you worked on some stealth mode startup's top-secret project, with NDAs and whatnot, there's nothing like the very real threat of decades in federal prison. The best way to avoid falling afoul of an unauthorized disclosure is strongly compartmentalizing your work life - this is strongly encouraged within the industry. You talk about work at work, in a vault where the only other people there are cleared. You STFU everywhere else. Easy and simple to remember. The only time this is _ever_ a problem is when you're trying to get out of the industry, where you must talk about your work experience to potential employers. That's how your perk becomes a trap.

inetsee 6y ago

A position with a defense contractor that requires a special-access clearance can pay very well. The problem is that you very often need to have the clearance to get the job. Getting a special-access clearance for an employee can take six months or more, and there may be some costs involved. Also, there would be that time waiting for the clearance before you could start working on a special-access project. Many (most?) defense contractors would rather pay extra to get someone who already has the clearance.

refurb 6y ago
This was my understanding. You basically get the gov't to pay for your clearance (which I hear can take a long time). Once you separate, your clearance can get your jobs in the private sector that people without clearance can't.[1] I'm not saying it's a ticket to being filthy rich, but it opens doors to some lucrative careers that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get. [1]https://www.clearancejobs.com/ https://www.clearancejobs.com/

moandcompany 6y ago

In addition to things people have already commented on, the ability to obtain and maintain a security clearance also comes with requirements such as: being mindful and reporting things like contact with foreign nationals, reporting plans for and completed foreign travel, generally being able to account for your whereabouts during those travels to the day. (Caveat: these are "rules" for regular people that have been given the privilege of holding a US national security clearance. There are many examples of people that have held security clearances that get away with conduct that would otherwise result in revocation and criminal charges for regular persons)