8 ms·

More information: "Officers who develop new technologies at CIA Labs will be allowed to patent, license, and profit from their work, making 15% of the total inc

More information: "Officers who develop new technologies at CIA Labs will be allowed to patent, license, and profit from their work, making 15% of the total income from the new invention with a cap of $150,000 per year. That could double most agency salaries and make the work more competitive with Silicon Valley." : https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/09/21/1008654/cias-new-tech-recruiting-pitch-more-patents-more-profits/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/09/21/1008654/cias-new...

thebean11 6y ago
Seems like a strange proposition, I take all the risk of creating a new technology that will likely fail, and then if I beat the odds and succeed I'm capped at 150k? Also, if I'm not allowed to monetize my technology or patents, do I really own them? Is this just a bad startup incubator?
- daniel-cussen 6y ago
  You absolutely don't take all the risk of creating a new technology. You get paid an excellent defense sector salary unconditionally, with all the defense sector benefits, some very exclusive. Plus you get tons of resources and the inside track to talk to "the client", you're not working out of your garage.
  - balls187 6y ago
    > ...with all the defense sector benefits, some very exclusive. Could you elaborate on that?
    - thoughtstheseus 6y ago
      Clearance for one.
      - AWildC182 6y ago
        If you think that's a perk you don't belong doing that work. It's not the james bond life you think it is and the people who think of it that way are insufferable. Try living in a windowless box for 8 hours a day and having no resume.
        balls187 6y ago
        Every once in a while you do collect some fun stories. I remember vividly one training session where they explained to us that if an attractive woman approached us, it wasn't because we were particularly interesting. And if that happened we should notify the security group immediately.
        throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        I remember in orientation for my first internship the HR lady disparaging Chinese Communist party and the phrase "happy ending" may have made an appearance during that part of the presentation. It was absolutely perfect for the demographics of the audience (a bunch of college kids) but man did it ruin every BigCo orientation since. I think she missed he calling as a comedian or some sort of entertainment professional.
        balls187 6y ago
        I had one orientation where the presenter showed images of the men and women who had jumped out of the WTC during 9/11 Then he cut to slides with several enemy combatants, followed by a massive explosion, followed by a large smoldering crater, and said "Pay back is a real bitch."
        jl2718 6y ago
        The most gruesome briefing I remember from the military was the dermatologist prior to fortnight leave.
        JackFr 6y ago
    - SamuelAdams 6y ago
      Not affiliated with them, this is just what I found on Google, but here are their benefits [1]. They don't seem that great honestly. New hires need to work for 3 years before they can get more than 13 days of PTO, and you only get 20+ days after working there for 15 YEARS. For comparison I work at a university and we get 20 days PTO on day 1. Plus very long holidays (2 weeks in december / january when the semester is out). [1]: https://www.cia.gov/careers/benefits.html?tab=list-7 https://www.cia.gov/careers/benefits.html?tab=list-7
      - ruffrey 6y ago
        The referenced page seems say you get an additional 13 days of sick time per year, carried over in an unlimited amount. So that would be 26 days per year from the start.
      - bumby 6y ago
        I believe that’s just “annual leave” and doesn’t count “sick leave” (which doubles the baseline PTO) and the federal holidays (10 days per year I believe)
    - daniel-cussen 6y ago
      The federal government pays a comfortable six figures (if I were offered this kind of job without being told the salary, I would value that opportunity estimating the salary to be $150,000). Plus you retire really early (I'm not certain whether CIA lets you retire after 20 years, but many fed roles do, with full salary), plus you have access to really hard to find information (valuable from the point of view of sheer curiosity). Not to mention, if in the course of your research you make enemies out of say hackers in Russia (totally plausible if you're researching computer security) they'll think twice before messing with you because you're part of the team (some liken it to being a "made man"). And you get paid that salary and those benefits even if for reasons outside of your control you don't come up with anything. I would speculate there's a limit to how much you can keep trying and failing, but at that limit you get moved to a different role where you don't need as much luck, but I know this is a smooth process. It's a far cry from an entrepreneur with no backing, or even VC backing. VC's generally don't take technical risk, only market risk: they won't pay for you to come up with a 10x better product, instead their contribution is backing an working 10x better product and helping it debut in the market (product-market fit, or final stages of development, but no research). And if for reasons outside your control your research fails in the market, venture capital practices "venture capitalism", you had a shot, you tried an adventure, it was an incredible journey, but they can't afford patience and faith like the federal government can, so they pull the proverbial plug.
      - jdm2212 6y ago
        > The federal government pays a comfortable six figures Nope, it doesn't. Cracking 100k in the civil service requires being very very senior (equivalent of at least a colonel in the military). It is a cool opportunity, but it does not pay well. Even the civil service salary PLUS the maximum $150k patent royalties is less than what a 27 year old at a FAANG earns.
        AndrewKemendo 6y ago
        This is immediately falsifiable with public documents from OPM: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2020/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... A mid-grade GS-12 in SF/DC/NY makes 100k+ which would be a non supervisory Individual Contributor with a BS. Colonel equivalent (GS-15) is indeed rare and would be closer to $150k+
  - jdm2212 6y ago
    > You get paid an excellent defense sector salary unconditionally I would imagine CIA officers get a regular civil service salary, which is emphatically not the high salaries that contractors earn.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      > I would imagine CIA officers get a regular civil service salary What is a "regular civil service salary"? Presumably CIA officers are better paid than the clerk behind the DMV counter? Perhaps a CIA officer salary is still "excellent" if not on par with defense contractors?
      - cameldrv 6y ago
        It would be on the GS scale [1]. The GS scale has a set of levels and steps. If you're promoted, you generally go up a GS level. You go up steps with more time in service. There are a number of adjustments, including an adjustment for cost of living. Generally if you only have a bachelor's, you're limited to GS-9. Of course, the federal government provides excellent job security and good benefits, but the salary is not competitive for a software person. The main problem is that the GS system essentially assumes that all PhDs and all Master's degrees are equally valuable, but the private market does not agree. [1] https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2020 https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2020
        AndrewKemendo 6y ago
        One correction here is that you are not limited to GS-9 with a BS only. GS-9 is often people with zero experience and a BS only depending on the position - like everything it's based on competitiveness. Recognize that the GS scale starts with people who have no formal education at all.
        grier 6y ago
        Starting out of school with a BS in computer science or computer engineering was GS 7 or 8, so around $40-50k/year. The salaries are public for each level. Additional degrees do not move you off the GS scale. Reaching the equivalent of executive level can mean moving beyond GS to the senior executive service (SES).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    If adding $150K doubles my salary, is that really an excellent salary?
    - markdown 6y ago
      For where you'll be located, you're damn right it's an excellent salary. And don't forget one of the biggest benefits of all... actually making something useful rather than spending your most important years working on how to get people to click a button or stare longer at their screens to enrich your employer.
      - thebean11 6y ago
        Yes, the only two options are ads and the CIA. I think a lot of us find the CIA more amoral and destructive than adtech by the way.
        markdown 6y ago
        > I think a lot of us find the CIA more amoral and destructive than adtech by the way. I understand that view, and I think history will show just how terribly wrong it is. The machinations of the CIA don't even begin to compare to the long-term ills that social-media and screen addiction are going to cause all over the world over the next few decades. I mean, Youtube and its recommendation algorithms alone have via radicalisation set the USA on a path to destruction from within. Throw in Twitter with their mob bubbles and it's beyond redemption.
        thebean11 6y ago
        Well I definitely don't want to get into a "which thing is more bad" argument, but the CIAs crimes are really well documented too.
      - muldvarp 6y ago
        > And don't forget one of the biggest benefits of all... actually making something useful rather than spending your most important years working on how to get people to click a button or stare longer at their screens to enrich your employer. Yeah, the only way to make something useful is to work for the government agency that has a wikipedia article about their human rights violations [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the_CIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the...
- Enginerrrd 6y ago
  It seems like they are offering support or funding though, no? In that case, they are definitely taking on some risk.
- dalbasal 6y ago
  No. The point is that you don't take the risk. You have a job. You get a salary. This usually means that you have no risk and no upside. The idea here is that you have some upside, but still take no risk. IDK if this works in practice, but the principle is that.
  - thebean11 6y ago
    Yeah good point, it's definitely not fair to say I'd be taking the risk. I guess I just find it really strange for them to say you'd own the technology you create.
  - xxpor 6y ago
    You still take a risk because if your project fails for whatever reason, you're stuck on a CIA salary, rather than a SV salary where you'd probably be making twice as much even if your project fails there too.
    - animationwill 6y ago
      Are we talking about founders or FAANG developers? Last I’ve read on HN, most founders are not making “SV salary” because they’re expecting the golden ticket. Here, it appears you get an equivalent salary + job security with a capped upside.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        It's a great deal. It's not meant to replicate a startup equity lottery ticket, it's closer to a financial services bonus or RSUs at Big Tech. ~$300k/year total comp and low risk compared to unicorn equity lottery is a no brainer, although if you can hustle and have the talent, you might do slightly better at FAANG.
      - thelean12 6y ago
        You say "equivalent salary" but compared to what? You mentioned FAANG above so I assume that? Unless you're ignoring total compensation, that's not right. You're going to have a much lower base compensation at CIA labs than FAANG. The $150k extra might only match FAANG, and would probably take years of effort to get it at the CIA. I imagine if you're talented enough to work at CIA labs you could land a much more lucrative and guaranteed FAANG compensation package instead.
- balls187 6y ago
  During my time at Boeing, they had the "Chairmans Innovation Initiative" A program where employees could apply for. Ideas that were selected were given funding, and either spun out into separate companies, or spun internally to an existing division. To me, that creates an aligned incentive for both the company, and the individual. To your specific point, you beat the odds, you will not only get profit sharing, but likely ascend the ladder quickly, opening up doors to the US government that you would never get if you went at it privately from the outside.
- TuringNYC 6y ago
  Short of being a founder and/or an individual inventor while not being employed who really gets upside from patents? I've seen plenty of executives get big bonuses from IP, rarely a non-founder engineer inventor. And if you are founder and/or individual inventor, your risk profile is totally different than a salaried employee. The least of which is the sheer legal cost to push thru a patent on your own dime.
- Rebelgecko 6y ago
  If you're continuously drawing a salary and not having to pay the lawyers yourself, you're definitely not taking all of the rism
- nxpnsv 6y ago
  It is not cheap filing. I hope CIA is paying for this....
- varispeed 6y ago
  Better that, than getting yourself "disappeared" if you catch my drift... Believe or not, there are people who crave such feudal relationship despite being quite intelligent and capable of discovering new things (to please their masters).
- Spooky23 6y ago
  You have no risk, civil service protection, government salary, benefits, pensions. With government jobs, you make less cash but get other compensation. In a professional role, between retiree healthcare and pension alone, the present value of your benefits can be worth $3-4M. You can do better with big tech companies, but generally speaking you have higher risks.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  > Seems like a strange proposition, I take all the risk of creating a new technology that will likely fail, and then if I beat the odds and succeed I'm capped at 150k? This is more than most employees at companies get for patents. 15% is normal in academia. In almost all companies, the employee gets a bonus (which could be less than $1000), and that's it. It's very rare for a company to give an employee a percentage of the profits off a patent.
- HillRat 6y ago
  You also receive the resources of the United States intelligence community (and probably DoD) to design, experiment, and operationalize your ideas, which ain’t nothin’. And, in general, no one sticks it out in the IC to get rich — these are folks who really are dedicated to mission over money (they could make a hell of a lot more decamping for the private sector, or even doing the contractor two-step with their existing jobs).
- m0zg 6y ago
  If you're an employee at e.g. Google or Microsoft, the best you're gonna get for your patent is a one-time bonus of a few thousand dollars, and not a dime more. This reads as though these are _CIA officers_ (i.e. employees) already. This is a ridiculously generous offer by the industry standards when it comes to employees, and one that's very likely to spur real innovation. If this is also $150K _per invention_, really creative people could invent themselves beachfront mansions in Maui pretty easily.
joncrane 6y ago
That seems like a very low cap. It will incentivize people to break up their "inventions" into as many possible separate "up to $150K" revenue streams as possible.
- crocodiletears 6y ago
  It may be a low cap for the Valley, but a 6 figure supplemental income is nothing to sneeze at for anyone making even twice that, especially when you don't have to take on any real personal risk to acquire it. It appeals to sharp minds that wouldn't tolerate the risks and logistics of being an entrepreneur in a startup. Especially if they want to guarantee food and a comfortable life for their family while they're working on their project.
heimatau 6y ago
What if the buyer of the technology is the US govt? Will those Officers have to give it to them for free?
- jonwachob91 6y ago
  No. The US Government is not "1" organization, it is a grouping of many different teams. Each team has their own budget and has to pay for the resources they consume, even if that resource is another thing in another US Government team.
  - heimatau 6y ago
    > Each team has their own budget and has to pay for the resources they consume, even if that resource is another thing in another US Government team. What ensures this? No one. Last I checked the Pentagon 'lost' billions. Various agencies aren't rigorous with the taxpayer's money, also their time horizons seem skewed (very little R&D to reduce various costs internally). Nor are they a fair actor. How could a single inventor petition the govt to pay up? Don't say a lawsuit because 'national security' supersedes any petition. Nonetheless, my main point is none of the above. My main point is why would a worker/inventor have any right over a technology? Their job is funded by taxpayers. In business, the same is true. 'Work for hire' is the concept/term. I get that they are trying to modify this to returning some money to the people but...if 150k is the limit, will this be a new minimum wage? Or does this limit account for inflation? Honestly, highly skilled workers (mostly) know their value to the market. I think it's a poor use of taxpayers money to give a % of an invention. Fire the bosses, be more nimble, there are plenty of alternatives to this degradation entering the equation.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      People who work for the government still get the benefits of basic labor law, in fact, in many cases, labor law for public sector employees is stronger than for those in the private sector.
johnknowles 6y ago
From your article: “This is helping maintain US dominance, particularly from a technological perspective,” says Meyerriecks. “That’s really critical for national and economic security. It also democratizes the technology by making it available to the planet in a way that allows the level of the water to rise for all.” Such a skeevy way to paint this picture -- it's not about global democratization to rise the water level, we know from history that the cia cares about the ability to impose controls through more powerful, more distributed tech.
bumby 6y ago
What many people discount is how many people would want to do this work for intangibles not quantified in pay. I remember reading a quote by somebody who asked why someone with great credentials would want to work in intelligence. They said it’s for the same reasons people would join the Marines when they have easier avenues to traditional “success”

thebean11 6y ago

Seems like a strange proposition, I take all the risk of creating a new technology that will likely fail, and then if I beat the odds and succeed I'm capped at 150k? Also, if I'm not allowed to monetize my technology or patents, do I really own them? Is this just a bad startup incubator?

daniel-cussen 6y ago
You absolutely don't take all the risk of creating a new technology. You get paid an excellent defense sector salary unconditionally, with all the defense sector benefits, some very exclusive. Plus you get tons of resources and the inside track to talk to "the client", you're not working out of your garage.
- balls187 6y ago
  > ...with all the defense sector benefits, some very exclusive. Could you elaborate on that?
  - thoughtstheseus 6y ago
    Clearance for one.
    - AWildC182 6y ago
      If you think that's a perk you don't belong doing that work. It's not the james bond life you think it is and the people who think of it that way are insufferable. Try living in a windowless box for 8 hours a day and having no resume.
      - balls187 6y ago
        Every once in a while you do collect some fun stories. I remember vividly one training session where they explained to us that if an attractive woman approached us, it wasn't because we were particularly interesting. And if that happened we should notify the security group immediately.
        throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        I remember in orientation for my first internship the HR lady disparaging Chinese Communist party and the phrase "happy ending" may have made an appearance during that part of the presentation. It was absolutely perfect for the demographics of the audience (a bunch of college kids) but man did it ruin every BigCo orientation since. I think she missed he calling as a comedian or some sort of entertainment professional.
        balls187 6y ago
        I had one orientation where the presenter showed images of the men and women who had jumped out of the WTC during 9/11 Then he cut to slides with several enemy combatants, followed by a massive explosion, followed by a large smoldering crater, and said "Pay back is a real bitch."
        jl2718 6y ago
        The most gruesome briefing I remember from the military was the dermatologist prior to fortnight leave.
      - JackFr 6y ago
  - SamuelAdams 6y ago
    Not affiliated with them, this is just what I found on Google, but here are their benefits [1]. They don't seem that great honestly. New hires need to work for 3 years before they can get more than 13 days of PTO, and you only get 20+ days after working there for 15 YEARS. For comparison I work at a university and we get 20 days PTO on day 1. Plus very long holidays (2 weeks in december / january when the semester is out). [1]: https://www.cia.gov/careers/benefits.html?tab=list-7 https://www.cia.gov/careers/benefits.html?tab=list-7
    - ruffrey 6y ago
      The referenced page seems say you get an additional 13 days of sick time per year, carried over in an unlimited amount. So that would be 26 days per year from the start.
    - bumby 6y ago
      I believe that’s just “annual leave” and doesn’t count “sick leave” (which doubles the baseline PTO) and the federal holidays (10 days per year I believe)
  - daniel-cussen 6y ago
    The federal government pays a comfortable six figures (if I were offered this kind of job without being told the salary, I would value that opportunity estimating the salary to be $150,000). Plus you retire really early (I'm not certain whether CIA lets you retire after 20 years, but many fed roles do, with full salary), plus you have access to really hard to find information (valuable from the point of view of sheer curiosity). Not to mention, if in the course of your research you make enemies out of say hackers in Russia (totally plausible if you're researching computer security) they'll think twice before messing with you because you're part of the team (some liken it to being a "made man"). And you get paid that salary and those benefits even if for reasons outside of your control you don't come up with anything. I would speculate there's a limit to how much you can keep trying and failing, but at that limit you get moved to a different role where you don't need as much luck, but I know this is a smooth process. It's a far cry from an entrepreneur with no backing, or even VC backing. VC's generally don't take technical risk, only market risk: they won't pay for you to come up with a 10x better product, instead their contribution is backing an working 10x better product and helping it debut in the market (product-market fit, or final stages of development, but no research). And if for reasons outside your control your research fails in the market, venture capital practices "venture capitalism", you had a shot, you tried an adventure, it was an incredible journey, but they can't afford patience and faith like the federal government can, so they pull the proverbial plug.
    - jdm2212 6y ago
      > The federal government pays a comfortable six figures Nope, it doesn't. Cracking 100k in the civil service requires being very very senior (equivalent of at least a colonel in the military). It is a cool opportunity, but it does not pay well. Even the civil service salary PLUS the maximum $150k patent royalties is less than what a 27 year old at a FAANG earns.
      - AndrewKemendo 6y ago
        This is immediately falsifiable with public documents from OPM: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2020/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... A mid-grade GS-12 in SF/DC/NY makes 100k+ which would be a non supervisory Individual Contributor with a BS. Colonel equivalent (GS-15) is indeed rare and would be closer to $150k+
- jdm2212 6y ago
  > You get paid an excellent defense sector salary unconditionally I would imagine CIA officers get a regular civil service salary, which is emphatically not the high salaries that contractors earn.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    > I would imagine CIA officers get a regular civil service salary What is a "regular civil service salary"? Presumably CIA officers are better paid than the clerk behind the DMV counter? Perhaps a CIA officer salary is still "excellent" if not on par with defense contractors?
    - cameldrv 6y ago
      It would be on the GS scale [1]. The GS scale has a set of levels and steps. If you're promoted, you generally go up a GS level. You go up steps with more time in service. There are a number of adjustments, including an adjustment for cost of living. Generally if you only have a bachelor's, you're limited to GS-9. Of course, the federal government provides excellent job security and good benefits, but the salary is not competitive for a software person. The main problem is that the GS system essentially assumes that all PhDs and all Master's degrees are equally valuable, but the private market does not agree. [1] https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2020 https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2020
      - AndrewKemendo 6y ago
        One correction here is that you are not limited to GS-9 with a BS only. GS-9 is often people with zero experience and a BS only depending on the position - like everything it's based on competitiveness. Recognize that the GS scale starts with people who have no formal education at all.
        grier 6y ago
        Starting out of school with a BS in computer science or computer engineering was GS 7 or 8, so around $40-50k/year. The salaries are public for each level. Additional degrees do not move you off the GS scale. Reaching the equivalent of executive level can mean moving beyond GS to the senior executive service (SES).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- sokoloff 6y ago
  If adding $150K doubles my salary, is that really an excellent salary?
  - markdown 6y ago
    For where you'll be located, you're damn right it's an excellent salary. And don't forget one of the biggest benefits of all... actually making something useful rather than spending your most important years working on how to get people to click a button or stare longer at their screens to enrich your employer.
    - thebean11 6y ago
      Yes, the only two options are ads and the CIA. I think a lot of us find the CIA more amoral and destructive than adtech by the way.
      - markdown 6y ago
        > I think a lot of us find the CIA more amoral and destructive than adtech by the way. I understand that view, and I think history will show just how terribly wrong it is. The machinations of the CIA don't even begin to compare to the long-term ills that social-media and screen addiction are going to cause all over the world over the next few decades. I mean, Youtube and its recommendation algorithms alone have via radicalisation set the USA on a path to destruction from within. Throw in Twitter with their mob bubbles and it's beyond redemption.
        thebean11 6y ago
        Well I definitely don't want to get into a "which thing is more bad" argument, but the CIAs crimes are really well documented too.
    - muldvarp 6y ago
      > And don't forget one of the biggest benefits of all... actually making something useful rather than spending your most important years working on how to get people to click a button or stare longer at their screens to enrich your employer. Yeah, the only way to make something useful is to work for the government agency that has a wikipedia article about their human rights violations [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the_CIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the...
Enginerrrd 6y ago
It seems like they are offering support or funding though, no? In that case, they are definitely taking on some risk.
dalbasal 6y ago
No. The point is that you don't take the risk. You have a job. You get a salary. This usually means that you have no risk and no upside. The idea here is that you have some upside, but still take no risk. IDK if this works in practice, but the principle is that.
- thebean11 6y ago
  Yeah good point, it's definitely not fair to say I'd be taking the risk. I guess I just find it really strange for them to say you'd own the technology you create.
- xxpor 6y ago
  You still take a risk because if your project fails for whatever reason, you're stuck on a CIA salary, rather than a SV salary where you'd probably be making twice as much even if your project fails there too.
  - animationwill 6y ago
    Are we talking about founders or FAANG developers? Last I’ve read on HN, most founders are not making “SV salary” because they’re expecting the golden ticket. Here, it appears you get an equivalent salary + job security with a capped upside.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      It's a great deal. It's not meant to replicate a startup equity lottery ticket, it's closer to a financial services bonus or RSUs at Big Tech. ~$300k/year total comp and low risk compared to unicorn equity lottery is a no brainer, although if you can hustle and have the talent, you might do slightly better at FAANG.
    - thelean12 6y ago
      You say "equivalent salary" but compared to what? You mentioned FAANG above so I assume that? Unless you're ignoring total compensation, that's not right. You're going to have a much lower base compensation at CIA labs than FAANG. The $150k extra might only match FAANG, and would probably take years of effort to get it at the CIA. I imagine if you're talented enough to work at CIA labs you could land a much more lucrative and guaranteed FAANG compensation package instead.
balls187 6y ago
During my time at Boeing, they had the "Chairmans Innovation Initiative" A program where employees could apply for. Ideas that were selected were given funding, and either spun out into separate companies, or spun internally to an existing division. To me, that creates an aligned incentive for both the company, and the individual. To your specific point, you beat the odds, you will not only get profit sharing, but likely ascend the ladder quickly, opening up doors to the US government that you would never get if you went at it privately from the outside.
TuringNYC 6y ago
Short of being a founder and/or an individual inventor while not being employed who really gets upside from patents? I've seen plenty of executives get big bonuses from IP, rarely a non-founder engineer inventor. And if you are founder and/or individual inventor, your risk profile is totally different than a salaried employee. The least of which is the sheer legal cost to push thru a patent on your own dime.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
If you're continuously drawing a salary and not having to pay the lawyers yourself, you're definitely not taking all of the rism
nxpnsv 6y ago
It is not cheap filing. I hope CIA is paying for this....
varispeed 6y ago
Better that, than getting yourself "disappeared" if you catch my drift... Believe or not, there are people who crave such feudal relationship despite being quite intelligent and capable of discovering new things (to please their masters).
Spooky23 6y ago
You have no risk, civil service protection, government salary, benefits, pensions. With government jobs, you make less cash but get other compensation. In a professional role, between retiree healthcare and pension alone, the present value of your benefits can be worth $3-4M. You can do better with big tech companies, but generally speaking you have higher risks.
BeetleB 6y ago
> Seems like a strange proposition, I take all the risk of creating a new technology that will likely fail, and then if I beat the odds and succeed I'm capped at 150k? This is more than most employees at companies get for patents. 15% is normal in academia. In almost all companies, the employee gets a bonus (which could be less than $1000), and that's it. It's very rare for a company to give an employee a percentage of the profits off a patent.
HillRat 6y ago
You also receive the resources of the United States intelligence community (and probably DoD) to design, experiment, and operationalize your ideas, which ain’t nothin’. And, in general, no one sticks it out in the IC to get rich — these are folks who really are dedicated to mission over money (they could make a hell of a lot more decamping for the private sector, or even doing the contractor two-step with their existing jobs).
m0zg 6y ago
If you're an employee at e.g. Google or Microsoft, the best you're gonna get for your patent is a one-time bonus of a few thousand dollars, and not a dime more. This reads as though these are _CIA officers_ (i.e. employees) already. This is a ridiculously generous offer by the industry standards when it comes to employees, and one that's very likely to spur real innovation. If this is also $150K _per invention_, really creative people could invent themselves beachfront mansions in Maui pretty easily.

joncrane 6y ago

That seems like a very low cap. It will incentivize people to break up their "inventions" into as many possible separate "up to $150K" revenue streams as possible.

crocodiletears 6y ago
It may be a low cap for the Valley, but a 6 figure supplemental income is nothing to sneeze at for anyone making even twice that, especially when you don't have to take on any real personal risk to acquire it. It appeals to sharp minds that wouldn't tolerate the risks and logistics of being an entrepreneur in a startup. Especially if they want to guarantee food and a comfortable life for their family while they're working on their project.

heimatau 6y ago

What if the buyer of the technology is the US govt? Will those Officers have to give it to them for free?

jonwachob91 6y ago
No. The US Government is not "1" organization, it is a grouping of many different teams. Each team has their own budget and has to pay for the resources they consume, even if that resource is another thing in another US Government team.
- heimatau 6y ago
  > Each team has their own budget and has to pay for the resources they consume, even if that resource is another thing in another US Government team. What ensures this? No one. Last I checked the Pentagon 'lost' billions. Various agencies aren't rigorous with the taxpayer's money, also their time horizons seem skewed (very little R&D to reduce various costs internally). Nor are they a fair actor. How could a single inventor petition the govt to pay up? Don't say a lawsuit because 'national security' supersedes any petition. Nonetheless, my main point is none of the above. My main point is why would a worker/inventor have any right over a technology? Their job is funded by taxpayers. In business, the same is true. 'Work for hire' is the concept/term. I get that they are trying to modify this to returning some money to the people but...if 150k is the limit, will this be a new minimum wage? Or does this limit account for inflation? Honestly, highly skilled workers (mostly) know their value to the market. I think it's a poor use of taxpayers money to give a % of an invention. Fire the bosses, be more nimble, there are plenty of alternatives to this degradation entering the equation.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    People who work for the government still get the benefits of basic labor law, in fact, in many cases, labor law for public sector employees is stronger than for those in the private sector.

johnknowles 6y ago

From your article: “This is helping maintain US dominance, particularly from a technological perspective,” says Meyerriecks. “That’s really critical for national and economic security. It also democratizes the technology by making it available to the planet in a way that allows the level of the water to rise for all.” Such a skeevy way to paint this picture -- it's not about global democratization to rise the water level, we know from history that the cia cares about the ability to impose controls through more powerful, more distributed tech.

bumby 6y ago

What many people discount is how many people would want to do this work for intangibles not quantified in pay. I remember reading a quote by somebody who asked why someone with great credentials would want to work in intelligence. They said it’s for the same reasons people would join the Marines when they have easier avenues to traditional “success”