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I dunno. In my experience, Google was easily the most ethical company I've worked for on a "per capita" basis. The big thing Google has going against it is the

I dunno. In my experience, Google was easily the most ethical company I've worked for on a "per capita" basis. The big thing Google has going against it is the size of its user base. Every little bit of evil multiplied out by billions of users ends up having a large impact. But for two companies of an equal size, I don't think a company with an ad-driven revenue model is necessarily going to be less ethical. The sales and marketing people I've worked with at other companies were far, far worse than people at Google, and their evil was only limited by the scaling limits of their sales tactics.

tboyd47 6y ago
Interesting. Ethics aside, do you think Google's ad-driven revenue model has affected the company culture at all?
- quicklime 6y ago
  Probably yes, and to be clear I'm not disputing the author's argument that revenue will come to dominate over culture in the long-term.
Retric 6y ago
Google is still a young company for it’s size. Ethically it’s been getting worse over time, which makes it’s current state less meaningful long term than the direction it’s headed.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  It could be argued that Google is getting more evil relative to its size, not its age. Ergo, you can’t extrapolate the trend unless you expect them to keep growing infinitely.
ksk 6y ago
Well, every ad-driven revenue model is at odds with privacy. There is zero chance that Google is going to support any privacy measure that will block themselves from spying on users. Google not only wants all your data to reside on their servers so they can mine it, but they're actively setting up tollbooths on the internet to take a cut from every online transaction. "Oh hey you Googled Tylers Texas BBQ, that must mean Google should get a cut from the order". Frankly its a bit scary that people honestly (and I truly believe you to be honest) believe Google could be a "most ethical" company.
- switch11 6y ago
  Agreed 100% -> Frankly its a bit scary that people honestly (and I truly believe you to be honest) believe Google could be a "most ethical" company. Among my friends there are so many that work for dodgy companies and believe they are doing something good In Seattle my friends and I ran into a girl who worked for a spybar/spy install bar company and she was completely OK with it. She actually liked working there Of course, now it turns out that Google, Facebook, Amazon do far worse stuff than spyware companies * reminds me of an old quote - It is impossible to make a man realize something when his pay check depends on him not realizing it
  - quicklime 6y ago
    The statement that a company is the "most ethical" is a relative one. It doesn't imply that the company is ethical, or a net good to the world. It simply means that it is relatively better than the others. > every ad-driven revenue model is at odds with privacy I agree with this statement (assuming you're talking about personally targeted ads). Believe it or not though, there are ways to be evil that don't require invading people's privacy, and there are a lot of companies out there that engage in this sort of bad behavior. I'm not saying that Google is perfectly ethical. I'm just saying that the other companies I've worked at have been worse, and that the heuristic of "avoid ad-based business models" won't necessarily steer you in the direction of an ethical career.
    - samatman 6y ago
      Not if it's your only heuristic! c'mon But staying out of the surveillance industry is table stakes for ethical employment.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pabs3 6y ago
  > every ad-driven revenue model is at odds with privacy Contextual advertising doesn't have this problem and in one recent case switching to it turned out to be more profitable: https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/03/stop_tracking_increase_revenue_effectiveness/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/03/stop_tracking_increas... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737352
eru 6y ago
I worked for Google as well. They are fine as far as I can tell. But similarly, the rank-and-file and the proclaimed policies at places like Bloomberg and Goldman Sachs were just as fine. Especially Bloomberg seemed to go to crazy lengths to be squeaky clean in all respects. Eg when you leave Bloomberg they immediately put you on garden leave, and (here's the squeaky clean part:) then pay out your remaining leave instead of folding that into your one-month gardening leave.

tboyd47 6y ago

Interesting. Ethics aside, do you think Google's ad-driven revenue model has affected the company culture at all?

quicklime 6y ago
Probably yes, and to be clear I'm not disputing the author's argument that revenue will come to dominate over culture in the long-term.

Retric 6y ago

Google is still a young company for it’s size. Ethically it’s been getting worse over time, which makes it’s current state less meaningful long term than the direction it’s headed.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
It could be argued that Google is getting more evil relative to its size, not its age. Ergo, you can’t extrapolate the trend unless you expect them to keep growing infinitely.

ksk 6y ago

Well, every ad-driven revenue model is at odds with privacy. There is zero chance that Google is going to support any privacy measure that will block themselves from spying on users. Google not only wants all your data to reside on their servers so they can mine it, but they're actively setting up tollbooths on the internet to take a cut from every online transaction. "Oh hey you Googled Tylers Texas BBQ, that must mean Google should get a cut from the order". Frankly its a bit scary that people honestly (and I truly believe you to be honest) believe Google could be a "most ethical" company.

switch11 6y ago
Agreed 100% -> Frankly its a bit scary that people honestly (and I truly believe you to be honest) believe Google could be a "most ethical" company. Among my friends there are so many that work for dodgy companies and believe they are doing something good In Seattle my friends and I ran into a girl who worked for a spybar/spy install bar company and she was completely OK with it. She actually liked working there Of course, now it turns out that Google, Facebook, Amazon do far worse stuff than spyware companies * reminds me of an old quote - It is impossible to make a man realize something when his pay check depends on him not realizing it
- quicklime 6y ago
  The statement that a company is the "most ethical" is a relative one. It doesn't imply that the company is ethical, or a net good to the world. It simply means that it is relatively better than the others. > every ad-driven revenue model is at odds with privacy I agree with this statement (assuming you're talking about personally targeted ads). Believe it or not though, there are ways to be evil that don't require invading people's privacy, and there are a lot of companies out there that engage in this sort of bad behavior. I'm not saying that Google is perfectly ethical. I'm just saying that the other companies I've worked at have been worse, and that the heuristic of "avoid ad-based business models" won't necessarily steer you in the direction of an ethical career.
  - samatman 6y ago
    Not if it's your only heuristic! c'mon But staying out of the surveillance industry is table stakes for ethical employment.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pabs3 6y ago
> every ad-driven revenue model is at odds with privacy Contextual advertising doesn't have this problem and in one recent case switching to it turned out to be more profitable: https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/03/stop_tracking_increase_revenue_effectiveness/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/03/stop_tracking_increas... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737352

eru 6y ago

I worked for Google as well. They are fine as far as I can tell. But similarly, the rank-and-file and the proclaimed policies at places like Bloomberg and Goldman Sachs were just as fine. Especially Bloomberg seemed to go to crazy lengths to be squeaky clean in all respects. Eg when you leave Bloomberg they immediately put you on garden leave, and (here's the squeaky clean part:) then pay out your remaining leave instead of folding that into your one-month gardening leave.