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To me, this sounds like developers who are too far away from the business. Either they don't understand the context, or they aren't given the latitude to expres

To me, this sounds like developers who are too far away from the business. Either they don't understand the context, or they aren't given the latitude to express their concerns about product direction.

grishka 6y ago
IMO "the business" is the root of the problem. Businesses tend to put money before literally everything else, and thus we end up with the awfulness that is the modern social media for example. No matter how visionary, proficient, and user-respecting you are as a developer, if you aren't complicit in earning all the money in the world at all costs, you're gonna get replaced by someone else who is.
- pier25 6y ago
  No offense but I think you're being dramatic and a bit naive. There are plenty of small companies chasing a dream other than total economic world domination. Obviously if you look at Facebook etc that's all you're going to see. Also, good luck running a business, any business of any size, without caring about money. Once you're responsible for the the livelihood of your employees and yourself (and maybe even SO and your progeny) your perspective changes radically.
  - grishka 6y ago
    > There are plenty of small companies chasing a dream other than total economic world domination. That is until they are pressured to "grow" by their investors that they do have more often than not. > Also, good luck running a business, any business of any size, without caring about money. I've worked at a company that was alive and well without chasing profits. It did a bare minimum of monetization to cover its expenses and get a little extra, and that was it. Users were happy, we were happy too. Then the investors decided they've had enough of it, sold their shares to others and those forced the CEO to leave. It was then acquired by a big corporation. I quit in around two years after that when I realized there's no going back and it's only going to get worse over time. It took a lot of effort to make myself go to HR and tell them I'm resigning. I still miss the spirit that was there when I joined. And I'm not sure there are any more companies like this, especially in 2020.
    - pier25 6y ago
      If you had put a couple of millions into a company you'd probably expect to get your money back, no? Would you be happy giving your money away? Another point you are missing is that not all companies work that way either. Many people start their own business with their own money and don't have to answer to investors. Look outside of tech: restaurants, design studios, stores, etc.
      - grishka 6y ago
        > If you had put a couple of millions into a company you'd probably expect to get your money back, no? Yes and you will eventually get it back if your company turns profit — any profit. That doesn't in any way imply growth at all costs which is what the world is obsessed with today because stocks. Practically, it doesn't make much sense to earn hundreds or even thousands times more money than what you spend, yet most companies do just that. It ends up laying idle on bank accounts, not benefitting the end users and society at large in any way. > Would you be happy giving your money away? Yes if that meant making the world better. > Many people start their own business with their own money and don't have to answer to investors. Look outside of tech: restaurants, design studios, stores, etc. And those usually respect their users/clients.

grishka 6y ago

IMO "the business" is the root of the problem. Businesses tend to put money before literally everything else, and thus we end up with the awfulness that is the modern social media for example. No matter how visionary, proficient, and user-respecting you are as a developer, if you aren't complicit in earning all the money in the world at all costs, you're gonna get replaced by someone else who is.

pier25 6y ago
No offense but I think you're being dramatic and a bit naive. There are plenty of small companies chasing a dream other than total economic world domination. Obviously if you look at Facebook etc that's all you're going to see. Also, good luck running a business, any business of any size, without caring about money. Once you're responsible for the the livelihood of your employees and yourself (and maybe even SO and your progeny) your perspective changes radically.
- grishka 6y ago
  > There are plenty of small companies chasing a dream other than total economic world domination. That is until they are pressured to "grow" by their investors that they do have more often than not. > Also, good luck running a business, any business of any size, without caring about money. I've worked at a company that was alive and well without chasing profits. It did a bare minimum of monetization to cover its expenses and get a little extra, and that was it. Users were happy, we were happy too. Then the investors decided they've had enough of it, sold their shares to others and those forced the CEO to leave. It was then acquired by a big corporation. I quit in around two years after that when I realized there's no going back and it's only going to get worse over time. It took a lot of effort to make myself go to HR and tell them I'm resigning. I still miss the spirit that was there when I joined. And I'm not sure there are any more companies like this, especially in 2020.
  - pier25 6y ago
    If you had put a couple of millions into a company you'd probably expect to get your money back, no? Would you be happy giving your money away? Another point you are missing is that not all companies work that way either. Many people start their own business with their own money and don't have to answer to investors. Look outside of tech: restaurants, design studios, stores, etc.
    - grishka 6y ago
      > If you had put a couple of millions into a company you'd probably expect to get your money back, no? Yes and you will eventually get it back if your company turns profit — any profit. That doesn't in any way imply growth at all costs which is what the world is obsessed with today because stocks. Practically, it doesn't make much sense to earn hundreds or even thousands times more money than what you spend, yet most companies do just that. It ends up laying idle on bank accounts, not benefitting the end users and society at large in any way. > Would you be happy giving your money away? Yes if that meant making the world better. > Many people start their own business with their own money and don't have to answer to investors. Look outside of tech: restaurants, design studios, stores, etc. And those usually respect their users/clients.