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Also the fact that the Epic Games Store exists is a step towards countering Steam's monopoly on mainstream titles. People complain about the loss of functional

Also the fact that the Epic Games Store exists is a step towards countering Steam's monopoly on mainstream titles. People complain about the loss of functionality like screenshots or the in-game browser when using Epic. And there are exclusivity deals. Complaints against those things are valid, and the actual implementation of the storefront needs a lot of improvement, but I'm wondering if a Steam monopoly would have been any better for consumers and developers. To me it sounds like a lot of consumers were happy with the monopoly and saw the exclusivity deals as disruptive as they had to migrate their friends list and set up a lot of things just to play that one hyped title. But when it comes down to the hard issue of staying afloat I can see how the money Epic offers to game studios is enticing.

RealStickman_ 6y ago
The exclusivity deals were disruptive because they took games that were promised to come to steam and made them exclusive. The customer has no benefit from the lower cut epic charges. Epic doesn't treat everyone equally. Big games like Cyberpunk 2077 are allowed to also sell on other platforms, while smaller games either go exclusive or go with everyone else. Competition is good, but I'd rather have GOG be that competition to Steam than Epic purely based on their anti-DRM stance.
- eropple 6y ago
  I don't much care for EGS, but Epic is paying small developers a lot for that exclusivity. In the current indie market, that chunk of change can be the difference between profitability and failure.
  - johnnyanmac 6y ago
    Or, as the above user put it, the difference between making a creative masterpiece or a clone made to exploit the system.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  > Epic doesn't treat everyone equally. Big games like Cyberpunk 2077 are allowed to also sell on other platforms, while smaller games either go exclusive or go with everyone else. There isn't a conspiracy here. Epic pays developers to make certain games (like Control) temporarily exclusive to EGS. Other developers, like CD Project RED, have not made such a deal, and thus Cyberpunk 2077 is available on many different PC game clients. There are plenty of games on EGS--large and small--which are not and have never been exclusive. Examples include The Unfinished Swan, SuperHot, and Axiom Verge just to pick three off the top of my head.
  - RealStickman_ 6y ago
    I meant the case of DARQ, where the developer was specifically told to either go exclusive or every other store with no possibility of selling on EGS and other stores. [1] According to the article other indie games got similar offers, while the big budget ones can go to multiple stores. [1] https://www.dsogaming.com/news/epic-games-wanted-darq-as-an-exclusive-developer-refused-the-offer-in-order-to-keep-his-word/ https://www.dsogaming.com/news/epic-games-wanted-darq-as-an-...
- ThatPlayer 6y ago
  To me, asking smaller games for exclusivity is just asking for commitment. One of the reason I don't buy games on GoG anymore is that the developers don't commit to updating their GoG version to keep parity with other versions of the game. https://www.gog.com/forum/general/games_that_treat_gog_customers_as_second_class_citizens_v2/page1 https://www.gog.com/forum/general/games_that_treat_gog_custo...
  - RealStickman_ 6y ago
    I didn't know that. Thanks for that list.
- lagadu 6y ago
  Should we also rail against Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo for paying developers to make games exclusive to their platforms?
  - RealStickman_ 6y ago
    No, because it's clear from the beginning what platforms their games will support. That wasn't the case with Metro Exodus [1] for example and one other indie game I can't remember the name off. [1] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/metro-exodus-pulled-from-steam,38526.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/metro-exodus-pulled-from-s...
  - account42 6y ago
    Yes
tubularhells 6y ago
Steam has been good to me with their native Linux client, Linux client support, proton compatibility tools and community tool support (glorious eggroll proton version). Epic has nothing to offer me. Furthermore, I know some gamedevs personally who release an early access level title with exclusivity deal on epic's playform just so that they gain access to further funding to finish the game and release on Steam for the actual shot at success. They take advantage of the money to fund their work, but have said that the numbers do not compare to that of Steam.
- b0rsuk 6y ago
  Phoenix Point was a game I cared about a lot. Then one day, they announced they would not be making a Linux version. Not long after they announced it will be Epic exclusive for a year.
  - tubularhells 6y ago
    I feel ya, I dropped it so hard I even forgot the game until reading your post.
  - hellotomyrars 6y ago
    Is it fair to blame the developers or blame Epic? Personally I think at the very least the developers deserve equal blame for accepting the bag of money from Epic. Money is a strong motivator but the Phoenix Point devs chose to break promises from crowdfunding to accept it. I think that reflects worse on them than it does Epic personally.
- qchris 6y ago
  I began gaming for the first time (unless you count playing on my roommates' XBox in college) this past week, mostly for The Witcher 2/3--both on Linux. The Witcher 3 was never supposed to run on my platform, but somehow Steam and Proton/Wine made that not only possible but actually enjoyable. I know technically they're doing it to make money, but I can't help like feel it's also something of a labor of love as well. It would have been much easier to leave people in my (our?) position behind, so I appreciate the heck out of Valve for putting in the effort. I imagine they're going to have my goodwill for a long time as a result.
grawprog 6y ago
>if a Steam monopoly would have been any better for consumers and developers. Well steam runs on and is actively supported on linux, Epic takes games that used to support linux then removes linux support and makes the games exclusive to their store. So for me personally, a steam monopoly would be better. The epic game store's existence has actually caused games to be removed from the platform I use. It's taken away choice from me. If it stopped existing, I'd be happy.
- MrDresden 6y ago
  Now I'm curious, what title previously destined to have linux support and distribution on multiple storefronts did Epic do this to?
  - grawprog 6y ago
    This was the high profile one a few months ago. https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/23/21078989/rocket-league-macos-linux-march-epic-games-online-multiplayer https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/23/21078989/rocket-league-ma...
munk-a 6y ago
I have one particular example of this I love since it happened right on the borderline. I own Anno 1800 on steam, but if you don't you can't (at least for the foreseeable and likely future) - Ubisoft pulled Anno from the steam storefront shortly after launch but! Probably due to some contract shinnanegans with steam, they continue to offer expansions + DLC to users who own Anno already on steam while new users remain locked out from buying it anywhere except UPlay + EGS. Ubisoft has moved a few things over to EGS but I love the Anno example because it landed just as EGS was gaining fame so it sits in the weird middle ground of technically being on steam but not really.
- dijit 6y ago
  Be a bit mindful blaming ubisoft for stuff vanishing from Steam. A significantly large part of why Ubisoft started cozying up to Epic was not because of the 5% stake tencent has in it. It was because Steam pulls all kinds of nasty shenanigans but ubisoft will not state any of it publicly because it would hurt their relationship. Steam has outright pulled all ubisoft games before, and ubisoft took the blame. People assumed it was because ubi wanted to push uplay; but it was all about someone at valve deciding that we'd violated some rule about content distribution. We gave UK players of AC:Syndicate a country specific hat which wouldn't have made sense to the global market. They didn't warn, we woke up to see that kotaku[0] had run an article about it before we even knew ourselves. This is not an isolated incident, just a dramatic one that I remember as my own personal shifting point w.r.t. steam, because I'd only just started working at Ubisoft and was hating on uplay and was quite fond of steam. [0]: https://kotaku.com/ubisoft-pulls-big-games-from-steam-1655676773 https://kotaku.com/ubisoft-pulls-big-games-from-steam-165567...
  - lmm 6y ago
    Having bought a Ubisoft game on Steam and having to sit there for minutes while uplay updates itself when I just wanted to play for 10 minutes or so, I have very little sympathy for you. > We gave UK players of AC:Syndicate a country specific hat which wouldn't have made sense to the global market. So Valve makes sure that players from different countries get the same content? As a UK expat that's something I'm glad of.

RealStickman_ 6y ago

The exclusivity deals were disruptive because they took games that were promised to come to steam and made them exclusive. The customer has no benefit from the lower cut epic charges. Epic doesn't treat everyone equally. Big games like Cyberpunk 2077 are allowed to also sell on other platforms, while smaller games either go exclusive or go with everyone else. Competition is good, but I'd rather have GOG be that competition to Steam than Epic purely based on their anti-DRM stance.

eropple 6y ago
I don't much care for EGS, but Epic is paying small developers a lot for that exclusivity. In the current indie market, that chunk of change can be the difference between profitability and failure.
- johnnyanmac 6y ago
  Or, as the above user put it, the difference between making a creative masterpiece or a clone made to exploit the system.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> Epic doesn't treat everyone equally. Big games like Cyberpunk 2077 are allowed to also sell on other platforms, while smaller games either go exclusive or go with everyone else. There isn't a conspiracy here. Epic pays developers to make certain games (like Control) temporarily exclusive to EGS. Other developers, like CD Project RED, have not made such a deal, and thus Cyberpunk 2077 is available on many different PC game clients. There are plenty of games on EGS--large and small--which are not and have never been exclusive. Examples include The Unfinished Swan, SuperHot, and Axiom Verge just to pick three off the top of my head.
- RealStickman_ 6y ago
  I meant the case of DARQ, where the developer was specifically told to either go exclusive or every other store with no possibility of selling on EGS and other stores. [1] According to the article other indie games got similar offers, while the big budget ones can go to multiple stores. [1] https://www.dsogaming.com/news/epic-games-wanted-darq-as-an-exclusive-developer-refused-the-offer-in-order-to-keep-his-word/ https://www.dsogaming.com/news/epic-games-wanted-darq-as-an-...
ThatPlayer 6y ago
To me, asking smaller games for exclusivity is just asking for commitment. One of the reason I don't buy games on GoG anymore is that the developers don't commit to updating their GoG version to keep parity with other versions of the game. https://www.gog.com/forum/general/games_that_treat_gog_customers_as_second_class_citizens_v2/page1 https://www.gog.com/forum/general/games_that_treat_gog_custo...
- RealStickman_ 6y ago
  I didn't know that. Thanks for that list.
lagadu 6y ago
Should we also rail against Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo for paying developers to make games exclusive to their platforms?
- RealStickman_ 6y ago
  No, because it's clear from the beginning what platforms their games will support. That wasn't the case with Metro Exodus [1] for example and one other indie game I can't remember the name off. [1] https://www.tomshardware.com/news/metro-exodus-pulled-from-steam,38526.html https://www.tomshardware.com/news/metro-exodus-pulled-from-s...
- account42 6y ago
  Yes

tubularhells 6y ago

Steam has been good to me with their native Linux client, Linux client support, proton compatibility tools and community tool support (glorious eggroll proton version). Epic has nothing to offer me. Furthermore, I know some gamedevs personally who release an early access level title with exclusivity deal on epic's playform just so that they gain access to further funding to finish the game and release on Steam for the actual shot at success. They take advantage of the money to fund their work, but have said that the numbers do not compare to that of Steam.

b0rsuk 6y ago
Phoenix Point was a game I cared about a lot. Then one day, they announced they would not be making a Linux version. Not long after they announced it will be Epic exclusive for a year.
- tubularhells 6y ago
  I feel ya, I dropped it so hard I even forgot the game until reading your post.
- hellotomyrars 6y ago
  Is it fair to blame the developers or blame Epic? Personally I think at the very least the developers deserve equal blame for accepting the bag of money from Epic. Money is a strong motivator but the Phoenix Point devs chose to break promises from crowdfunding to accept it. I think that reflects worse on them than it does Epic personally.
qchris 6y ago
I began gaming for the first time (unless you count playing on my roommates' XBox in college) this past week, mostly for The Witcher 2/3--both on Linux. The Witcher 3 was never supposed to run on my platform, but somehow Steam and Proton/Wine made that not only possible but actually enjoyable. I know technically they're doing it to make money, but I can't help like feel it's also something of a labor of love as well. It would have been much easier to leave people in my (our?) position behind, so I appreciate the heck out of Valve for putting in the effort. I imagine they're going to have my goodwill for a long time as a result.

grawprog 6y ago

>if a Steam monopoly would have been any better for consumers and developers. Well steam runs on and is actively supported on linux, Epic takes games that used to support linux then removes linux support and makes the games exclusive to their store. So for me personally, a steam monopoly would be better. The epic game store's existence has actually caused games to be removed from the platform I use. It's taken away choice from me. If it stopped existing, I'd be happy.

MrDresden 6y ago
Now I'm curious, what title previously destined to have linux support and distribution on multiple storefronts did Epic do this to?
- grawprog 6y ago
  This was the high profile one a few months ago. https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/23/21078989/rocket-league-macos-linux-march-epic-games-online-multiplayer https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/23/21078989/rocket-league-ma...

munk-a 6y ago

I have one particular example of this I love since it happened right on the borderline. I own Anno 1800 on steam, but if you don't you can't (at least for the foreseeable and likely future) - Ubisoft pulled Anno from the steam storefront shortly after launch but! Probably due to some contract shinnanegans with steam, they continue to offer expansions + DLC to users who own Anno already on steam while new users remain locked out from buying it anywhere except UPlay + EGS. Ubisoft has moved a few things over to EGS but I love the Anno example because it landed just as EGS was gaining fame so it sits in the weird middle ground of technically being on steam but not really.

dijit 6y ago
Be a bit mindful blaming ubisoft for stuff vanishing from Steam. A significantly large part of why Ubisoft started cozying up to Epic was not because of the 5% stake tencent has in it. It was because Steam pulls all kinds of nasty shenanigans but ubisoft will not state any of it publicly because it would hurt their relationship. Steam has outright pulled all ubisoft games before, and ubisoft took the blame. People assumed it was because ubi wanted to push uplay; but it was all about someone at valve deciding that we'd violated some rule about content distribution. We gave UK players of AC:Syndicate a country specific hat which wouldn't have made sense to the global market. They didn't warn, we woke up to see that kotaku[0] had run an article about it before we even knew ourselves. This is not an isolated incident, just a dramatic one that I remember as my own personal shifting point w.r.t. steam, because I'd only just started working at Ubisoft and was hating on uplay and was quite fond of steam. [0]: https://kotaku.com/ubisoft-pulls-big-games-from-steam-1655676773 https://kotaku.com/ubisoft-pulls-big-games-from-steam-165567...
- lmm 6y ago
  Having bought a Ubisoft game on Steam and having to sit there for minutes while uplay updates itself when I just wanted to play for 10 minutes or so, I have very little sympathy for you. > We gave UK players of AC:Syndicate a country specific hat which wouldn't have made sense to the global market. So Valve makes sure that players from different countries get the same content? As a UK expat that's something I'm glad of.