4 ms·

Might have started on Venus too.

dredmorbius 6y ago
Recent thinking is that Hot Venus is a relatively new phenomenon, possibly within the past billion years. Its previous incarnation would have been more hospitable to familiar forms of life. https://zenodo.org/record/1253896 https://zenodo.org/record/1253896
saalweachter 6y ago
So assuming the phosphine is in fact indicative of life on Venus, there's a wide range of possibilities on where life started how many times and where it spread, but I think the most hilarious possibility would be if we realized we'd accidentally seeded Venus with extremophiles on one of our early probes. (Which would basically be the least exciting option, although still kind of exciting WRT the possibility of terraforming.)
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  It would surprise me given the low chances that a) the particular bug that hitched a ride was capable of surviving 1. interplanetary space 2. the atmosphere of Venus and 3. happened to be one to produce phosphene (according to TFA we don't even know what that is yet); and b) reproduced so quickly and efficiently that within 40ish years was able to be detectable from earth... Would be neat tho
  - saalweachter 6y ago
    Oh, extremely unlikely for a number of reasons. And neat if it happened as well. But it would just be so, so disappointing compared to a second origin of life within the solar system or even compared to proof of some form of panspermia or natural seeding of life from planet to planet that it would be a lovely delayed "fuck you" from 2020 if we spend the next 20 years confirming the existence of microbes on Venus, retrieving samples, and finally sciencing enough to realize, goddammit, this is just recent Earth bacteria adapted to a novel environment.
- rsynnott 6y ago
  This seems unlikely. We don't have many, if any, extremophiles which could actually deal well with Venus (extremophiles are normally a product of extreme environments on earth, and, if nothing else, we don't really have anything as acidic as Venus) and even if we did, it hasn't been a long time for them to establish themselves.
  - saalweachter 6y ago
    Yeah, it would be extremely surprising if we had anything on Earth that would do the trick (the layer of clouds in question is fairly nice, warm but not hot and fairly normal pressure, except for being chock full of sulphuric acid, so things like volcanic vents at the ocean floor or other typical "extreme" Earth environments wouldn't be a good analog for it), and even more surprising if it were able to contaminate a space probe as opposed to being confined to some, well, extreme environment on Earth. But with respect to time, I'm not sure that intuitively 40 years wouldn't be enough -- you're talking about an environment that is uniform, free from competition, and circulating rapidly (the wind circles Venus every 4 days). So the microbes would only need to adapt to ~one environment, not a gradient of conditions of varying temperatures, humidity, and illumination; any resources that were present would be up for grabs as opposed to already claimed by better-adapted organisms; and you wouldn't be spatially bound to slowly expand from a single spot at a snail's pace. It'd be one big petri dish under the right circumstances.

Recent thinking is that Hot Venus is a relatively new phenomenon, possibly within the past billion years. Its previous incarnation would have been more hospitable to familiar forms of life. https://zenodo.org/record/1253896 https://zenodo.org/record/1253896

saalweachter 6y ago

So assuming the phosphine is in fact indicative of life on Venus, there's a wide range of possibilities on where life started how many times and where it spread, but I think the most hilarious possibility would be if we realized we'd accidentally seeded Venus with extremophiles on one of our early probes. (Which would basically be the least exciting option, although still kind of exciting WRT the possibility of terraforming.)

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
It would surprise me given the low chances that a) the particular bug that hitched a ride was capable of surviving 1. interplanetary space 2. the atmosphere of Venus and 3. happened to be one to produce phosphene (according to TFA we don't even know what that is yet); and b) reproduced so quickly and efficiently that within 40ish years was able to be detectable from earth... Would be neat tho
- saalweachter 6y ago
  Oh, extremely unlikely for a number of reasons. And neat if it happened as well. But it would just be so, so disappointing compared to a second origin of life within the solar system or even compared to proof of some form of panspermia or natural seeding of life from planet to planet that it would be a lovely delayed "fuck you" from 2020 if we spend the next 20 years confirming the existence of microbes on Venus, retrieving samples, and finally sciencing enough to realize, goddammit, this is just recent Earth bacteria adapted to a novel environment.
rsynnott 6y ago
This seems unlikely. We don't have many, if any, extremophiles which could actually deal well with Venus (extremophiles are normally a product of extreme environments on earth, and, if nothing else, we don't really have anything as acidic as Venus) and even if we did, it hasn't been a long time for them to establish themselves.
- saalweachter 6y ago
  Yeah, it would be extremely surprising if we had anything on Earth that would do the trick (the layer of clouds in question is fairly nice, warm but not hot and fairly normal pressure, except for being chock full of sulphuric acid, so things like volcanic vents at the ocean floor or other typical "extreme" Earth environments wouldn't be a good analog for it), and even more surprising if it were able to contaminate a space probe as opposed to being confined to some, well, extreme environment on Earth. But with respect to time, I'm not sure that intuitively 40 years wouldn't be enough -- you're talking about an environment that is uniform, free from competition, and circulating rapidly (the wind circles Venus every 4 days). So the microbes would only need to adapt to ~one environment, not a gradient of conditions of varying temperatures, humidity, and illumination; any resources that were present would be up for grabs as opposed to already claimed by better-adapted organisms; and you wouldn't be spatially bound to slowly expand from a single spot at a snail's pace. It'd be one big petri dish under the right circumstances.