8 ms·

Seems to be a heavy "all modern software development sucks" vibe in this thread, when the issue is more "software I get paid to write sucks". What software woul

by mythz 6y ago

Seems to be a heavy "all modern software development sucks" vibe in this thread, when the issue is more "software I get paid to write sucks". What software would you write if you could write whatever you wanted using whatever language/technology you wanted? Unless all the joy gets sucked out beforehand, pretty sure I'm going to move to be developing Mobile Apps after I retire. It was the most fun I've had writing Apps & my kids loved playing with them. We're now able to target super computers in everyone's pocket with an unprecedented array of capabilities using sophisticated high-level productive languages & tools with effortless access to global distribution, we've never had it this good.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> What software would you write if you could write whatever you wanted using whatever language/technology you wanted? What does it matter? After a 40+ hour work week developing bullshit, plus all the other demands on a modern adult's time, very few people, even those who like writing software, are going to want to sit down and write more.
- xigency 6y ago
  I think it’s more the point that it isn’t the profession that sucks but the job. There are a lot of writers out there but few New York Times best selling fiction authors. We can’t saying earning a living as a writer sucks because most people write for blogs.
bob1029 6y ago
Modern software development is incredible if you are able to avoid the buzzword bullshit and focus on delivering cool solutions that solve real problems.
- sli 6y ago
  I've never worked a development job where I get any say in avoiding buzzwords or delivering solutions I would call cool. I typically get caught up in clients bikeshedding irrelevant details and managers enabling and promoting it. I hear so much on HN and on reddit about jobs that give programmers some level of autonomy but I just don't see it. My entire experience is very much the opposite, and I absolutely loathe this awful industry.
  - bob1029 6y ago
    I would recommend finding for smaller companies to work for, or better yet, doing your own consulting. Being able to fire customers is the only reason I still enjoy what I do.
  - 0xEFF 6y ago
    Consult. If your client doesn’t follow your advice most of the time move on to a client who does.
    - matttb 6y ago
      It's dramatically easier to find work than to consult. Especially if you've spent your career at 1-2 very small companies and have zero 'network' to tap into. The idea of beginning consulting is more daunting to me than switching careers is.
krosaen 6y ago
Agree that the job matters a lot. I was working at a job where the domain was really fun but the tech work itself was getting repetitive for me (web and native apps, rdbs backed servers etc). It took a couple of years willing to make way less money but now I'm working in robotics and enjoy my day job technically very much, and the pay is back up to market rate (in a more lucrative field). And the journey during which I made zero (summer studying) and then 1/2 of previous pay (engineer in university lab) was both fun and rejuvenating. I think it's important to save up some of your money as you go especially early on when you get that first software job where it feels like you are making a lot of money. Start saving for your future transition(s) as you may not be happy working in the same field for your entire career.
driverdan 6y ago
I hate mobile app development because of the gatekeeping store process. Apple and Google, but especially Apple, make arbitrary decisions that can have a major impact on your revenue and sanity. No thanks.
draw_down 6y ago
I think that’s the wrong frame- the two problems for me are the corporate environment (which is hellish and always getting worse, but also applies to any other office job) and the “never finished” nature of software. I don’t want to keep adding features to the same thing, I don’t want to keep being the expert on how it works and how long it will take to do x and sit around planning out roadmaps and do user research and all this shit. I want to work on something for a while and have that be enough and then do another project. It’s the nature of the work, not “I’m building websites when I could be building mobile apps”.
nicbou 6y ago
> What software would you write if you could write whatever you wanted using whatever language/technology you wanted? The sort that solves problems I'm interested in. I love the idea of treating software as a home-cooked meal [1]: something you prepare with love for a small crowd of people. For instance, I added a recipes section to my personal website. I also added achievements to it some time ago[2]. Both were completely pointless, but I enjoyed doing it the same way I enjoy cooking. [1] https://www.robinsloan.com/notes/home-cooked-app/ https://www.robinsloan.com/notes/home-cooked-app/ [2] https://nicolasbouliane.com/achievements https://nicolasbouliane.com/achievements
- mpwoz 6y ago
  Thank you for the Robin Sloan link, I've been a fan of his ever since I read Sourdough for a book club a few years ago (incidentally while learning how to make my own by total coincedence) and his style really resonates with me. That blog was an interesting take and I've definitely experienced some of his frustration while making a small browser extension - it took an hour to code, and about 3 hours to wrangle it to conform to the chrome web store requirements before giving up and switching to Firefox ;) Love the achievements section too, neat idea!
allenu 6y ago
I do mobile app development and I love it. At work I do that and a little bit of backend and web frontend development and I just don't enjoy those as much. There's more overhead in getting things done there, whereas with iOS development, you have a more constrained space where there's generally just one way to do things, so you spend more time thinking about the problem you are solving vs. dealing with technology issues. Yes, there are still things you have to figure out on iOS that don't have the greatest documentation, but I find it's much more straightforward than the other spaces I mentioned. If I could write whatever I wanted to on whatever platform, I'd do what I'm doing now as a side project: a flash card app on iOS and macOS. [1] I'm finding it lets me deal with the entire "stack" of interesting product problems: technology, user experience design, solving a real user problem, and even marketing. I'm not treating it as a serious job, so it is mostly fun to work on, although I am getting close to releasing it, so it can be a slog. (This reminds me of what I read about the author of Stardew Valley and how after working on his game for several years, he did find it difficult to keep working on it, which is a problem you really can't get away from.) [1] See https://www.ussherpress.com/blog/ https://www.ussherpress.com/blog/ for some posts about it if you are curious
abawany 6y ago
I agree - the job that one is in makes a gigantic difference that is sometimes falsely attributed to software development but really just applies to the workplace in question. I have mentioned in other threads how working at places with bad technologies and suck-driven processes brought me down so much that I used to wait in the parking lot on arrival at the workplace and contemplate the misery of the day that awaited me. I am happy I was able to pull out of that tailspin and make necessary changes, even if they made my job history look sub-optimal, and discover that software development remains a great place to be if one makes an effort to find one's niche.
samatman 6y ago
I'd be writing what I'm writing, using the stack I chose when I created this job for myself. Took me a few years to get here, but now I never want to leave.

by mythz 6y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

> What software would you write if you could write whatever you wanted using whatever language/technology you wanted? What does it matter? After a 40+ hour work week developing bullshit, plus all the other demands on a modern adult's time, very few people, even those who like writing software, are going to want to sit down and write more.

xigency 6y ago
I think it’s more the point that it isn’t the profession that sucks but the job. There are a lot of writers out there but few New York Times best selling fiction authors. We can’t saying earning a living as a writer sucks because most people write for blogs.

bob1029 6y ago

Modern software development is incredible if you are able to avoid the buzzword bullshit and focus on delivering cool solutions that solve real problems.

sli 6y ago
I've never worked a development job where I get any say in avoiding buzzwords or delivering solutions I would call cool. I typically get caught up in clients bikeshedding irrelevant details and managers enabling and promoting it. I hear so much on HN and on reddit about jobs that give programmers some level of autonomy but I just don't see it. My entire experience is very much the opposite, and I absolutely loathe this awful industry.
- bob1029 6y ago
  I would recommend finding for smaller companies to work for, or better yet, doing your own consulting. Being able to fire customers is the only reason I still enjoy what I do.
- 0xEFF 6y ago
  Consult. If your client doesn’t follow your advice most of the time move on to a client who does.
  - matttb 6y ago
    It's dramatically easier to find work than to consult. Especially if you've spent your career at 1-2 very small companies and have zero 'network' to tap into. The idea of beginning consulting is more daunting to me than switching careers is.

krosaen 6y ago

Agree that the job matters a lot. I was working at a job where the domain was really fun but the tech work itself was getting repetitive for me (web and native apps, rdbs backed servers etc). It took a couple of years willing to make way less money but now I'm working in robotics and enjoy my day job technically very much, and the pay is back up to market rate (in a more lucrative field). And the journey during which I made zero (summer studying) and then 1/2 of previous pay (engineer in university lab) was both fun and rejuvenating. I think it's important to save up some of your money as you go especially early on when you get that first software job where it feels like you are making a lot of money. Start saving for your future transition(s) as you may not be happy working in the same field for your entire career.

driverdan 6y ago

I hate mobile app development because of the gatekeeping store process. Apple and Google, but especially Apple, make arbitrary decisions that can have a major impact on your revenue and sanity. No thanks.

draw_down 6y ago

I think that’s the wrong frame- the two problems for me are the corporate environment (which is hellish and always getting worse, but also applies to any other office job) and the “never finished” nature of software. I don’t want to keep adding features to the same thing, I don’t want to keep being the expert on how it works and how long it will take to do x and sit around planning out roadmaps and do user research and all this shit. I want to work on something for a while and have that be enough and then do another project. It’s the nature of the work, not “I’m building websites when I could be building mobile apps”.

nicbou 6y ago

> What software would you write if you could write whatever you wanted using whatever language/technology you wanted? The sort that solves problems I'm interested in. I love the idea of treating software as a home-cooked meal [1]: something you prepare with love for a small crowd of people. For instance, I added a recipes section to my personal website. I also added achievements to it some time ago[2]. Both were completely pointless, but I enjoyed doing it the same way I enjoy cooking. [1] https://www.robinsloan.com/notes/home-cooked-app/ https://www.robinsloan.com/notes/home-cooked-app/ [2] https://nicolasbouliane.com/achievements https://nicolasbouliane.com/achievements

mpwoz 6y ago
Thank you for the Robin Sloan link, I've been a fan of his ever since I read Sourdough for a book club a few years ago (incidentally while learning how to make my own by total coincedence) and his style really resonates with me. That blog was an interesting take and I've definitely experienced some of his frustration while making a small browser extension - it took an hour to code, and about 3 hours to wrangle it to conform to the chrome web store requirements before giving up and switching to Firefox ;) Love the achievements section too, neat idea!

allenu 6y ago

I do mobile app development and I love it. At work I do that and a little bit of backend and web frontend development and I just don't enjoy those as much. There's more overhead in getting things done there, whereas with iOS development, you have a more constrained space where there's generally just one way to do things, so you spend more time thinking about the problem you are solving vs. dealing with technology issues. Yes, there are still things you have to figure out on iOS that don't have the greatest documentation, but I find it's much more straightforward than the other spaces I mentioned. If I could write whatever I wanted to on whatever platform, I'd do what I'm doing now as a side project: a flash card app on iOS and macOS. [1] I'm finding it lets me deal with the entire "stack" of interesting product problems: technology, user experience design, solving a real user problem, and even marketing. I'm not treating it as a serious job, so it is mostly fun to work on, although I am getting close to releasing it, so it can be a slog. (This reminds me of what I read about the author of Stardew Valley and how after working on his game for several years, he did find it difficult to keep working on it, which is a problem you really can't get away from.) [1] See https://www.ussherpress.com/blog/ https://www.ussherpress.com/blog/ for some posts about it if you are curious

abawany 6y ago

I agree - the job that one is in makes a gigantic difference that is sometimes falsely attributed to software development but really just applies to the workplace in question. I have mentioned in other threads how working at places with bad technologies and suck-driven processes brought me down so much that I used to wait in the parking lot on arrival at the workplace and contemplate the misery of the day that awaited me. I am happy I was able to pull out of that tailspin and make necessary changes, even if they made my job history look sub-optimal, and discover that software development remains a great place to be if one makes an effort to find one's niche.

samatman 6y ago

I'd be writing what I'm writing, using the stack I chose when I created this job for myself. Took me a few years to get here, but now I never want to leave.