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I believe the main thing that changed is that 10 years ago, "building software" meant you would work with (presumably reasonable) engineers. Nowadays, it means

I believe the main thing that changed is that 10 years ago, "building software" meant you would work with (presumably reasonable) engineers. Nowadays, it means you do web busywork for some newly rich kid chasing a startup lifestyle, who may or may not have any idea about what's easy/difficult possible/impossible. Also, the whole industry has been strongly commercialized. Before, people would share source code on the internet just for the fun of it. Nowadays, that is a surefire way for someone else to take your source code and sell it as theirs. I mean that's basically what Cloud providers do. They rent out access to open source software. The insane pressure of money also makes sure that most software nowadays is not build to any reasonable engineering standard, even when it really should be (like Boeing MCAS). Instead, every piece of software nowadays is optimized for the sweet spot between sucking so bad that nobody buys it and not spending a penny more than what is necessary. The goal of software development has changed, and I think $1 phone apps nicely illustrate the new commercial landscape. It's the bare minimum quality at the bare minimum price. BTW, on a related note, most bicycles made in 2000 still had a much more stable frame than the 2020 models. The marked switched from costly steel to cheaper aluminum so that you can make $300 supermarket bikes. And obviously, the quality has suffered. It appears that in general, there's always a race to the lowest possible quality in the hopes of reducing costs, thereby increasing profits. Does anyone have any suggestion how we could reverse this trend in general?

cpursley 6y ago
Your overall tone is negative and elitist. Thee $300 supermarket bike (I have one and put over 40 miles on it weekly and it's help up fine for four years) provides access to folks who otherwise can't afford the fancy $1,500 aluminium/carbon machines. Fancy bikes are still getting made and even getting better. Newly rich kid or VC funded startups distributes money from wealthy people to an every growing software industry. It allows people like me to work in software; something that was previously only available to elite educated people who happened to live in the correct zip code. tl;dr: The pie has increased in size and become much more inclusive. Yes, there is a lot of low-quality pie out there. But there is also plenty of high-quality pie for those who can afford it. This is good for everyone except the very elite entrenched class.
- plazmatic 6y ago
  You have no data to support "the pie has increased in size and BECOME MUCH MORE INCLUSIVE." Become much more inclusive? You're crazy.
- cpursley 6y ago
  The downvotes are fun. I guess some people are just against inclusiveness? I'm very grateful to be in this industry despite not having the "correct" background.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    I don't get the downvotes. You have a very solid extremely valid counter point and I think the person you're responding too created a false dichomtomy. Cheaper does not eliminate the quality. They can both co-exist and indeed do. The lower tier just opens the door for a group of people who never had access before. Thank you for your input.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Ignore the downvotes. Initial votes are misleading, and if the comment is substantial, they'll stabilize to a reasonable value over the following couple hours. > Cheaper does not eliminate the quality. They can both co-exist and indeed do. It sometimes does, if it eliminates quality out of the market. Say a quality frame costed $500 before; then you have a new, cheaper technology that can achieve similar performance by cutting out more extreme loads / road conditions; as manufacturers jump at it to save money, suddenly the whole $100-$800 range uses just that, and the quality frame rises to $1500 due to collapsing demand. Can't say whether it's good or bad on the whole, but it annoys the hell out of me in cases where I could afford the quality product but I can't, because nobody is making it anymore.
      - nickthemagicman 6y ago
        Sure That's a good point. Things can tend to extremes. Instead of middle range products you get low tier and high tier products and those absorb their different shares of the market from the middle. This type of extreme seems to happen in all facets of human society over time including jobs, housing, cars, etc.. The middle becomes pushed out. That's been a big issue for a long time. Alot of access is given to people who previously had no access but the middle is somewhat eliminated.
tarsinge 6y ago
It was always like this except in the hobbyist world, and I think maybe you and some developers are confused because the corporate takeover of the web is relatively recent. When I think of software development in the past I think of Office Space (the movie), not some idyllic times.
neilk 6y ago
I think you might be experiencing what it's like to have, er, experience. Like, I could make the exact same complaint except I'd situate it about 10 years earlier, around the first dot-com explosion. And somewhat earlier than that, I remember grizzled programmers from the 1980s who hand-tuned their C and assembly and who thought we were flagrantly wasting computer resources on garbage platforms like the web. (However, bringing it back to the 2010s and beyond, you're right that open source development has been completely co-opted.)

cpursley 6y ago

Your overall tone is negative and elitist. Thee $300 supermarket bike (I have one and put over 40 miles on it weekly and it's help up fine for four years) provides access to folks who otherwise can't afford the fancy $1,500 aluminium/carbon machines. Fancy bikes are still getting made and even getting better. Newly rich kid or VC funded startups distributes money from wealthy people to an every growing software industry. It allows people like me to work in software; something that was previously only available to elite educated people who happened to live in the correct zip code. tl;dr: The pie has increased in size and become much more inclusive. Yes, there is a lot of low-quality pie out there. But there is also plenty of high-quality pie for those who can afford it. This is good for everyone except the very elite entrenched class.

plazmatic 6y ago
You have no data to support "the pie has increased in size and BECOME MUCH MORE INCLUSIVE." Become much more inclusive? You're crazy.
cpursley 6y ago
The downvotes are fun. I guess some people are just against inclusiveness? I'm very grateful to be in this industry despite not having the "correct" background.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  I don't get the downvotes. You have a very solid extremely valid counter point and I think the person you're responding too created a false dichomtomy. Cheaper does not eliminate the quality. They can both co-exist and indeed do. The lower tier just opens the door for a group of people who never had access before. Thank you for your input.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Ignore the downvotes. Initial votes are misleading, and if the comment is substantial, they'll stabilize to a reasonable value over the following couple hours. > Cheaper does not eliminate the quality. They can both co-exist and indeed do. It sometimes does, if it eliminates quality out of the market. Say a quality frame costed $500 before; then you have a new, cheaper technology that can achieve similar performance by cutting out more extreme loads / road conditions; as manufacturers jump at it to save money, suddenly the whole $100-$800 range uses just that, and the quality frame rises to $1500 due to collapsing demand. Can't say whether it's good or bad on the whole, but it annoys the hell out of me in cases where I could afford the quality product but I can't, because nobody is making it anymore.
    - nickthemagicman 6y ago
      Sure That's a good point. Things can tend to extremes. Instead of middle range products you get low tier and high tier products and those absorb their different shares of the market from the middle. This type of extreme seems to happen in all facets of human society over time including jobs, housing, cars, etc.. The middle becomes pushed out. That's been a big issue for a long time. Alot of access is given to people who previously had no access but the middle is somewhat eliminated.

tarsinge 6y ago

It was always like this except in the hobbyist world, and I think maybe you and some developers are confused because the corporate takeover of the web is relatively recent. When I think of software development in the past I think of Office Space (the movie), not some idyllic times.

neilk 6y ago

I think you might be experiencing what it's like to have, er, experience. Like, I could make the exact same complaint except I'd situate it about 10 years earlier, around the first dot-com explosion. And somewhat earlier than that, I remember grizzled programmers from the 1980s who hand-tuned their C and assembly and who thought we were flagrantly wasting computer resources on garbage platforms like the web. (However, bringing it back to the 2010s and beyond, you're right that open source development has been completely co-opted.)