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> Apple has a dongle problem. It is not a problem, it's a feature. Apple replaced ports that used to cost them pennies in components for dongles which they ca

> Apple has a dongle problem. It is not a problem, it's a feature. Apple replaced ports that used to cost them pennies in components for dongles which they can sell to customers for upwards of $50, which can be lost, or which you buy multiples of so you can have one at home, in the office, etc. Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins. Remove existing functionality and charge customers more to return to the status quo.

ConceptJunkie 6y ago
That's not the only reason. With Apple's almost monomaniacal emphasis on making everything as thin as possible the USB-C ports keep the port from limiting the thickness of the device. I started a new job recently and got a MBP and iPhone, and the number of dongles I've needed is ridiculous. What's most insane is that I can't even use the earbuds that came with the iPhone with the computer. I'm sure there's a dongle for that. Then there's the fact that a few days after I started using the Mac the right ports stopped working with the power cord to charge the machine. I had to do research the find the secret keyboard combination to reset the USB ports. Although Apple's products are generally very good, they have no lack of features and designs that make absolutely no sense to me.
delfinom 6y ago
Yep. Same reason why they removed their unit sales numbers from quarterly reports in 2018. Unit sales are down, so they need to pump revenue and profit through more goods and margin
culturestate 6y ago
> this is purely about improving their margins...charge customers more to return to the status quo. This argument has never made much sense to me, if only because the amount of money we're talking about is, for Apple, vanishingly small. The Mac is just ~10% of Apple's revenue, of which the "dongle ecosystem" is surely no more than a fraction of a percent. While admittedly not knowing much about how Apple works internally, I would find it easier to believe that they switched to USB-C just because it looks prettier than because they wanted to make an extra $20 million per year on dongle sales.
- grepnork 6y ago
  Because it's a great deal easier than replacing the logic board after the user ripped the Ethernet port out of it or filled the usb ports up with crap. I repair used macs. The number 1 problem on all the pre-2012 MacBooks is damaged ports. Not for nothing, all of these arguments were made when Apple switched from ADB to USB, to Firewire, from 30pin to lightning, and they're being recycled again for the switch to USB-C. The answer to your question is that each one does something better than the last in terms of portability or data transfer.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    My working assumption has always been that Apple makes decisions like this just because they can, frankly. I would do the same thing if I had the same power to move markets that they do - no need to put up with legacies of the past when I can just force everyone to follow me toward whatever I consider the future to be.
    - grepnork 6y ago
      USB provided device portability over ADB and higher transfer speeds, lightning doubled the data transfer rate available to any other device available in 2011 and stopped ports breaking due to 'fluff', firewire provided faster transfer speeds and networking features. USB-C provides zero insertion force sockets, a single replacement for any plug of any kind from monitors to networking, 24 pins, and 40Gbps speeds. Reliability. Speed. Adaptability. User convenience.
  - pcdoodle 6y ago
    I have to call BS on this. We've fixed MacBooks since we started in 2009 and we've done ZERO port replacements. Dropping magsafe is when we started seeing port damage. Most problems on the 2008-2012 models are logic board related.
nojito 6y ago
The revenues they get from dongles is minuscule. At the end of the day, we are rapidly moving towards a wireless future.
chorsestudios 6y ago
I'm not sure its purely about improving margins. A lot of people seem to complain about Apple removing the SD card slot, but I never used it despite regularly using SD cards and I'm happy it is gone. It would have been nice if Apple included an older USB port though as it doesn't seem as antiquated.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  Counterpoint: Photography is my main hobby and I use the SD card on my MBP very often. When I go on trips I very much enjoy having less different pieces of hardware to carry, less things to lose. One of the target markets of Macs and especially MBPs is "creatives". Photographers are a part of those. On the MBP 16" presentation page one of the first selling points is that it has a great screen with great colors. The example is a landscape photographer. Of course, you could directly plug the camera in the computer, or have some external card reader, but why bother with carrying more suff? I agree with the others that thunderbolt 3 is great, and I sure look forward to only having usb-c connectors. On my work computer I love that (it's a pc though). Of course, there's the "right cable" situation, but I suppose that whatever peripheral I buy will have the right kind of cable for it to work. My external monitor does DP alternate mode + PD and the cable that came with works. That sait, I would miss the magsafe plug, it's probably one of the reasons why my 7 yo mbp is still going strong. I also think they could have left a usb-a port or two, just like they didn't remove FW800 on the first generation unibody mbp.
  - calciphus 6y ago
    I know it's heracy, but take a look at the surface book. Thunderbolt/usb-c (can daisy chain 2 monitors + PD), SD card, magnetic power cord or an amazing dock (same port), two USB-A ports, a pen and removable screen for drawing / retouching, available w/ 32gb of RAM and a 6gb graphics card.
    - vladvasiliu 6y ago
      Meh, I'm not one to throw the baby with the bathwater so all suggestions are welcome (my main external kb is MS sculpt). I was actually looking around at PCs some moths ago, when the mbp16 came out, and among them the surfaces. But I find Windows gets on my nerves pretty quickly and Linux support seemed sketchy last time I checked (2019). If I had to buy a pc, it would probably be a Lenovo X1E or something similar. Anyway, my mbp is still powerful enough for my needs and works perfectly, so I'm not really in the market for a new PC (nor mac). I just like to more or less keep an eye on what happens, just in case.
ollysb 6y ago
Witness how hard it is to buy USB-C cables in an Apple store. Want a new iPhone cable to plug into your laptop, ah sorry we've only got usb-c but you can use adapter...
mcphage 6y ago
> Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins. I don't think that's the difference. I think the difference is that, the other times 3rd party companies made the switch to whatever Apple was pushing, and this time, they didn't. USB-A is good enough, and common enough, that all of these companies making keyboard and mice and whatever components, just didn't bother to switch. So, I don't think that this transition was different from Apple's perspective, I think it has just been a failure.

ConceptJunkie 6y ago

That's not the only reason. With Apple's almost monomaniacal emphasis on making everything as thin as possible the USB-C ports keep the port from limiting the thickness of the device. I started a new job recently and got a MBP and iPhone, and the number of dongles I've needed is ridiculous. What's most insane is that I can't even use the earbuds that came with the iPhone with the computer. I'm sure there's a dongle for that. Then there's the fact that a few days after I started using the Mac the right ports stopped working with the power cord to charge the machine. I had to do research the find the secret keyboard combination to reset the USB ports. Although Apple's products are generally very good, they have no lack of features and designs that make absolutely no sense to me.

delfinom 6y ago

Yep. Same reason why they removed their unit sales numbers from quarterly reports in 2018. Unit sales are down, so they need to pump revenue and profit through more goods and margin

culturestate 6y ago

> this is purely about improving their margins...charge customers more to return to the status quo. This argument has never made much sense to me, if only because the amount of money we're talking about is, for Apple, vanishingly small. The Mac is just ~10% of Apple's revenue, of which the "dongle ecosystem" is surely no more than a fraction of a percent. While admittedly not knowing much about how Apple works internally, I would find it easier to believe that they switched to USB-C just because it looks prettier than because they wanted to make an extra $20 million per year on dongle sales.

grepnork 6y ago
Because it's a great deal easier than replacing the logic board after the user ripped the Ethernet port out of it or filled the usb ports up with crap. I repair used macs. The number 1 problem on all the pre-2012 MacBooks is damaged ports. Not for nothing, all of these arguments were made when Apple switched from ADB to USB, to Firewire, from 30pin to lightning, and they're being recycled again for the switch to USB-C. The answer to your question is that each one does something better than the last in terms of portability or data transfer.
- culturestate 6y ago
  My working assumption has always been that Apple makes decisions like this just because they can, frankly. I would do the same thing if I had the same power to move markets that they do - no need to put up with legacies of the past when I can just force everyone to follow me toward whatever I consider the future to be.
  - grepnork 6y ago
    USB provided device portability over ADB and higher transfer speeds, lightning doubled the data transfer rate available to any other device available in 2011 and stopped ports breaking due to 'fluff', firewire provided faster transfer speeds and networking features. USB-C provides zero insertion force sockets, a single replacement for any plug of any kind from monitors to networking, 24 pins, and 40Gbps speeds. Reliability. Speed. Adaptability. User convenience.
- pcdoodle 6y ago
  I have to call BS on this. We've fixed MacBooks since we started in 2009 and we've done ZERO port replacements. Dropping magsafe is when we started seeing port damage. Most problems on the 2008-2012 models are logic board related.

nojito 6y ago

The revenues they get from dongles is minuscule. At the end of the day, we are rapidly moving towards a wireless future.

chorsestudios 6y ago

I'm not sure its purely about improving margins. A lot of people seem to complain about Apple removing the SD card slot, but I never used it despite regularly using SD cards and I'm happy it is gone. It would have been nice if Apple included an older USB port though as it doesn't seem as antiquated.

vladvasiliu 6y ago
Counterpoint: Photography is my main hobby and I use the SD card on my MBP very often. When I go on trips I very much enjoy having less different pieces of hardware to carry, less things to lose. One of the target markets of Macs and especially MBPs is "creatives". Photographers are a part of those. On the MBP 16" presentation page one of the first selling points is that it has a great screen with great colors. The example is a landscape photographer. Of course, you could directly plug the camera in the computer, or have some external card reader, but why bother with carrying more suff? I agree with the others that thunderbolt 3 is great, and I sure look forward to only having usb-c connectors. On my work computer I love that (it's a pc though). Of course, there's the "right cable" situation, but I suppose that whatever peripheral I buy will have the right kind of cable for it to work. My external monitor does DP alternate mode + PD and the cable that came with works. That sait, I would miss the magsafe plug, it's probably one of the reasons why my 7 yo mbp is still going strong. I also think they could have left a usb-a port or two, just like they didn't remove FW800 on the first generation unibody mbp.
- calciphus 6y ago
  I know it's heracy, but take a look at the surface book. Thunderbolt/usb-c (can daisy chain 2 monitors + PD), SD card, magnetic power cord or an amazing dock (same port), two USB-A ports, a pen and removable screen for drawing / retouching, available w/ 32gb of RAM and a 6gb graphics card.
  - vladvasiliu 6y ago
    Meh, I'm not one to throw the baby with the bathwater so all suggestions are welcome (my main external kb is MS sculpt). I was actually looking around at PCs some moths ago, when the mbp16 came out, and among them the surfaces. But I find Windows gets on my nerves pretty quickly and Linux support seemed sketchy last time I checked (2019). If I had to buy a pc, it would probably be a Lenovo X1E or something similar. Anyway, my mbp is still powerful enough for my needs and works perfectly, so I'm not really in the market for a new PC (nor mac). I just like to more or less keep an eye on what happens, just in case.

ollysb 6y ago

Witness how hard it is to buy USB-C cables in an Apple store. Want a new iPhone cable to plug into your laptop, ah sorry we've only got usb-c but you can use adapter...

mcphage 6y ago

> Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins. I don't think that's the difference. I think the difference is that, the other times 3rd party companies made the switch to whatever Apple was pushing, and this time, they didn't. USB-A is good enough, and common enough, that all of these companies making keyboard and mice and whatever components, just didn't bother to switch. So, I don't think that this transition was different from Apple's perspective, I think it has just been a failure.