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> Even if you go vegan, thrift all your clothes and minimize your consumption, you have such a tiny footprint compared to corporations that naturally value prof

by mcntsh 6y ago

> Even if you go vegan, thrift all your clothes and minimize your consumption, you have such a tiny footprint compared to corporations that naturally value profit over the environment. If more people thrifted, went vegan, and minimised their consumption, it would shrink the footprint of these corporations as well. These things don't all exist in a vacuum. Shipping/manufacturing companies pollute the earth shipping/manufacturing things for consumers. Now, it's not to say that these businesses shouldn't be held accountable, but people need to take some personal responsibility too. Once regulatory action passes, and corporations are forced to abide by environmentally conscious laws, consumers will be forced to be less consumeristic just by force of economics. It'll come down to consumers in one way or another.

KozmoNau7 6y ago
It comes down to consumption in general. The modern materialistic society is born from decades of advertising, product placement and the idea that to get ahead in life, you have to outspend and outconsume your peers. You have to flaunt your material goods, because that is the only thing equating to status in our current society. This mindset and ideal was created almost entirely by big corporations. They haven't simply satisfied existing demands for decades, they have created and planted those demands via advertising, in order to sell their products. Add the factors of planned obsolescence and lack of repairability on top of that, and you have a recipe for constant consumption and endless waste creation. Then they tried to foist recycling on us as an end-all be-all solution to the pollution we're creating, but it not even close to being enough, by several orders of magnitude. We need to increase quality, reduce quantity and make do with much much less. And the start of that is to do something about the 100 corporations that are responsible for ~70% of all emissions. Tax all emissions hard, as a start.
- mcntsh 6y ago
  > This mindset and ideal was created almost entirely by big corporations. Corporations aren't some faceless evil entity. They're made up by people trying to make money to buy material goods to raise their quality of life and status in society. This is what bothers me about the "evil corporations" scapegoat. People paint this picture of "corporations" as if they're an infection that was given to the human race, but they're just part of the human condition. Humans are to blame.
  - michaelt 6y ago
    Corporations are unique in their ability to, for example, spill 4.9 million barrels of oil into the gulf of mexico. Some people feel the narrative of "Oh BP aren't responsible for the consequences of their actions, it's just that people want their product so very much" is PR from oil industry lobbyists.
    - mcntsh 6y ago
      Huh? I never claimed they shouldn't be responsible for their actions. Where did you get that from?
      - michaelt 6y ago
        When you said they were "scapegoats" and "Humans are to blame" ? And that "It'll come down to consumers in one way or another" and that what's needed is more people to shop in thrift shops and become vegan?
        mcntsh 6y ago
        ...are humans not to blame? Who's running these businesses? Who's cutting the corners? Who's buying the BP products?
  - esarbe 6y ago
    Yes, humans are to blame, and corporations are the mechanism. The problem with the "corporation mechanism" is that it absolves people from any moral responsibility, because shareholder values. It's a viscous mechanism that drives people to dissociate themselves from the consequences of their actions.
    - mcntsh 6y ago
      100% correct, and it goes both ways... the stakeholders who work at these companies, and the consumers who use their products.

by mcntsh 6y ago

KozmoNau7 6y ago

It comes down to consumption in general. The modern materialistic society is born from decades of advertising, product placement and the idea that to get ahead in life, you have to outspend and outconsume your peers. You have to flaunt your material goods, because that is the only thing equating to status in our current society. This mindset and ideal was created almost entirely by big corporations. They haven't simply satisfied existing demands for decades, they have created and planted those demands via advertising, in order to sell their products. Add the factors of planned obsolescence and lack of repairability on top of that, and you have a recipe for constant consumption and endless waste creation. Then they tried to foist recycling on us as an end-all be-all solution to the pollution we're creating, but it not even close to being enough, by several orders of magnitude. We need to increase quality, reduce quantity and make do with much much less. And the start of that is to do something about the 100 corporations that are responsible for ~70% of all emissions. Tax all emissions hard, as a start.

mcntsh 6y ago
> This mindset and ideal was created almost entirely by big corporations. Corporations aren't some faceless evil entity. They're made up by people trying to make money to buy material goods to raise their quality of life and status in society. This is what bothers me about the "evil corporations" scapegoat. People paint this picture of "corporations" as if they're an infection that was given to the human race, but they're just part of the human condition. Humans are to blame.
- michaelt 6y ago
  Corporations are unique in their ability to, for example, spill 4.9 million barrels of oil into the gulf of mexico. Some people feel the narrative of "Oh BP aren't responsible for the consequences of their actions, it's just that people want their product so very much" is PR from oil industry lobbyists.
  - mcntsh 6y ago
    Huh? I never claimed they shouldn't be responsible for their actions. Where did you get that from?
    - michaelt 6y ago
      When you said they were "scapegoats" and "Humans are to blame" ? And that "It'll come down to consumers in one way or another" and that what's needed is more people to shop in thrift shops and become vegan?
      - mcntsh 6y ago
        ...are humans not to blame? Who's running these businesses? Who's cutting the corners? Who's buying the BP products?
- esarbe 6y ago
  Yes, humans are to blame, and corporations are the mechanism. The problem with the "corporation mechanism" is that it absolves people from any moral responsibility, because shareholder values. It's a viscous mechanism that drives people to dissociate themselves from the consequences of their actions.
  - mcntsh 6y ago
    100% correct, and it goes both ways... the stakeholders who work at these companies, and the consumers who use their products.