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Your examples are only ideas, he is talking about actual systems. In fact his points still stands for the actual experiments that validated the most recent adva

by mam2 6y ago

Your examples are only ideas, he is talking about actual systems. In fact his points still stands for the actual experiments that validated the most recent advances in relativity and quantum mechanics..

andrepd 6y ago
Which experiments are those? I can't think of one foundational experiment in modern physics (>20th c.) that was developed in industry rather than academia.
- sriku 6y ago
  Much of the work on realising quantum computers seems.to be happening in industry, no?
- mam2 6y ago
  The point of op is that you need a lot of money at the same place to make great things happens, and that's mostly in industry. Large colliders for example were only possible because of that. I didn't say it was not possible in academia, just that money is in industry...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
svara 6y ago
> Your examples are only ideas, he is talking about actual systems. Yes, exactly, that's the distinction between engineering and foundational research. Academia is for the latter. The examples that I quoted have arguably had more impact on civilization than any single engineering project, because they define what engineering can even be. There's a separate (and IMO more interesting) discussion to be had about why many academics feel like they're not contributing to highly relevant foundational advances. But this thread right here just seems like a big misunderstanding about what academia is.
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  There's a story that an academic was telling the world that heavier-than-air flight was impossible at the same time that the Wright brothers flew the first plane. Not all engineering advances are based on science, often the engineering comes first. Physics has been stuck in a quagmire for 50+ years. The "foundational research" hasn't moved, possibly since Einstein (who only became an academic after publishing his important work). Meanwhile the engineers have done awesome things. The impact on civilisation from string theory: zip The impact on civilisation from the internet: huge I'm not sure what foundational advances you mean, but the impact is definitely on the engineering side for the last 100 years.
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    The internet and the web both came out of public/gov funded organisations with fundamental academic ties. I think there is some dubious domain claiming in these industry vs academia anecdotes.
    - marcus_holmes 6y ago
      OK, but only partially. The invention of IP protocol and HTML happened as byproducts of government-funded projects (they were certainly never invented to be what they are). Since then all the impact (and further development) has happened because of things deliberately developed by industry.
  - gus_massa 6y ago
    >* Physics has been stuck in a quagmire for 50+ years. The "foundational research" hasn't moved, possibly since Einstein (who only became an academic after publishing his important work).* You forgot all Quantum Mechanics. His only collaboration was the explanation photoelectric effect. (He got a Nobel price for this but is it a very tiny part of Quantum mechanics.) The electroweak unification and quantum chromodynamics were discovered after Einstein's death. Also the Higgs boson prediction and experiments are post Einstein's death.
mellosouls 6y ago
There haven't been recent (significant) advances in relativity or quantum mechanics.

by mam2 6y ago

andrepd 6y ago

Which experiments are those? I can't think of one foundational experiment in modern physics (>20th c.) that was developed in industry rather than academia.

sriku 6y ago
Much of the work on realising quantum computers seems.to be happening in industry, no?
mam2 6y ago
The point of op is that you need a lot of money at the same place to make great things happens, and that's mostly in industry. Large colliders for example were only possible because of that. I didn't say it was not possible in academia, just that money is in industry...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

svara 6y ago

> Your examples are only ideas, he is talking about actual systems. Yes, exactly, that's the distinction between engineering and foundational research. Academia is for the latter. The examples that I quoted have arguably had more impact on civilization than any single engineering project, because they define what engineering can even be. There's a separate (and IMO more interesting) discussion to be had about why many academics feel like they're not contributing to highly relevant foundational advances. But this thread right here just seems like a big misunderstanding about what academia is.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
There's a story that an academic was telling the world that heavier-than-air flight was impossible at the same time that the Wright brothers flew the first plane. Not all engineering advances are based on science, often the engineering comes first. Physics has been stuck in a quagmire for 50+ years. The "foundational research" hasn't moved, possibly since Einstein (who only became an academic after publishing his important work). Meanwhile the engineers have done awesome things. The impact on civilisation from string theory: zip The impact on civilisation from the internet: huge I'm not sure what foundational advances you mean, but the impact is definitely on the engineering side for the last 100 years.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  The internet and the web both came out of public/gov funded organisations with fundamental academic ties. I think there is some dubious domain claiming in these industry vs academia anecdotes.
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    OK, but only partially. The invention of IP protocol and HTML happened as byproducts of government-funded projects (they were certainly never invented to be what they are). Since then all the impact (and further development) has happened because of things deliberately developed by industry.
- gus_massa 6y ago
  >* Physics has been stuck in a quagmire for 50+ years. The "foundational research" hasn't moved, possibly since Einstein (who only became an academic after publishing his important work).* You forgot all Quantum Mechanics. His only collaboration was the explanation photoelectric effect. (He got a Nobel price for this but is it a very tiny part of Quantum mechanics.) The electroweak unification and quantum chromodynamics were discovered after Einstein's death. Also the Higgs boson prediction and experiments are post Einstein's death.

mellosouls 6y ago

There haven't been recent (significant) advances in relativity or quantum mechanics.