5 ms·

Jet fuel is just kerosene. Why do you say it's hellaciously toxic? It's pretty similar to other fuels like gasoline. In rural areas you can buy kerosene at gas

by ars 6y ago

Jet fuel is just kerosene. Why do you say it's hellaciously toxic? It's pretty similar to other fuels like gasoline. In rural areas you can buy kerosene at gas stations, there are no special precautions above and beyond the same ones used for gasoline for cars. Perhaps you're thinking of fuel for fighter jets? Because some of those can be incredibly toxic.

dehrmann 6y ago
There's also Avgas. That's still leaded.
- fuzzfactor 6y ago
  Still dyed green when leaded, blue when unleaded became available in recent decades.
TylerE 6y ago
It isn't "just kerosene". It it MOSTLY kerosene, but as usual it's the last 1% that kills you - various additives to prevent things like icing and corrosion, and benzene and various napthas.
- fuzzfactor 6y ago
  Kerosine came first as a high-flash-point (for safety reasons) lamp fuel somewhat comparable to whale oil. Gasoline is very volatile intentionally, but kerosine is supposed to be not-so-easy to ignite. If you ever had to light a kerosine furnace on a cold winter day, you can drop a number of lit matches right into an ounce of it and a few will simply be extinguished before one finally catches fire. Later, Diesel type engines could then then run on it, generally better than they could on the animal and vegetable oils which are similar enough. Then came jet engines and industrial turbines. Benzene and light naphthas are low-flash-point gasoline-range hydrocarbon components not found in measurable amounts in jet fuel. However, other hydrocarbons found in jet fuel could one day be determined to be just as much of a political pollutant as Benzene. It's possible for the same diesel-range tank to pass all modern specifications for kerosine, diesel, and jet, though rarely done. Kerosine still has a lamp burning test, diesel has cetane requirement, turbo has various stability and trace metal specs, not shared with the other usages. No. 1 Diesel is lighter and allows for better acceleration (but use gasoline when you really need to accelerate uphill) so it's great for Mercedes or big pickup owners, No. 2 diesel is the heavier stuff for long haul trucking MPG. YMMV
  - TylerE 6y ago
    https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2019/06/10/air-force-veteran-pins-cancer-diagnosis-on-valero.html https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2019/06/10/air-f... https://casetext.com/case/lambert-v-bp-products-north-america https://casetext.com/case/lambert-v-bp-products-north-americ... https://oem.bmj.com/content/60/12/969 https://oem.bmj.com/content/60/12/969 Benzene, in particular, has an accepted safe exposure level of zero.
desdiv 6y ago
Here's the Safety Data Sheet for JET A-1[0]: >H226 Flammable liquid and vapour >H315 Causes skin irritation >H336 May cause drowsiness or dizziness >H304 May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways >H411 Toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effect [0] https://www.neste.fi/static/ktt/10505_eng.pdf https://www.neste.fi/static/ktt/10505_eng.pdf
- beervirus 6y ago
  Sounds like kerosene.
- jcranmer 6y ago
  That's basically true of any fuel on the petroleum spectrum. Here's an MSDS for what you pump into your car as fuel: https://www.vercounty.org/MSDS/EMA/9950allgradesgasoline.pdf https://www.vercounty.org/MSDS/EMA/9950allgradesgasoline.pdf. Note how it's basically saying the same thing?
- taneq 6y ago
  So you shouldn't drink it, breathe it, or swim in it? I don't know if I'd call that "hellacious" in the "things I won't work with" sense.
  - zaarn 6y ago
    For "things I won't work with" it needs atleast "flammable upon contact with skin/oxygen" or "friction explosive, no lower bound" or even "highly toxic and highly carcinogenic".
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      "so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured"
jabl 6y ago
> Jet fuel is just kerosene. Why do you say it's hellaciously toxic? It's pretty similar to other fuels like gasoline. Indeed. Jet fuel is quite similar to diesel oil, except it's slightly more volatile (on average slightly shorter hydrocarbon chains). To the point it's possible to run (some, not all) diesel engines on jet fuel. > In rural areas you can buy kerosene at gas stations, there are no special precautions above and beyond the same ones used for gasoline for cars. There's also kerosene as in lamp oil, or used as cooking fuel e.g. in camping equipment. That is a specially refined very pure form of kerosine. You shouldn't use jet fuel in your camping stove. > Perhaps you're thinking of fuel for fighter jets? Because some of those can be incredibly toxic. Some fighter jets (F-16 at least) used hydrazine (which is incredibly toxic) for some emergency power generation turbine. But the main fuel is still normal jet fuel. Though the military version of jet fuel (JP-8) contains some additives, but the effect of those is quite minor.
- adwww 6y ago
  Once jet fuel has been onboard an aircraft, it can't be sold to any other airline / operators due to possible contamination. So if a pilot needs an aircraft defuelled for whatever reason (maintenance, etc), some airports will simply use that fuel as diesel for their own airside vehicles.

by ars 6y ago

dehrmann 6y ago

There's also Avgas. That's still leaded.

fuzzfactor 6y ago
Still dyed green when leaded, blue when unleaded became available in recent decades.

TylerE 6y ago

It isn't "just kerosene". It it MOSTLY kerosene, but as usual it's the last 1% that kills you - various additives to prevent things like icing and corrosion, and benzene and various napthas.

fuzzfactor 6y ago
Kerosine came first as a high-flash-point (for safety reasons) lamp fuel somewhat comparable to whale oil. Gasoline is very volatile intentionally, but kerosine is supposed to be not-so-easy to ignite. If you ever had to light a kerosine furnace on a cold winter day, you can drop a number of lit matches right into an ounce of it and a few will simply be extinguished before one finally catches fire. Later, Diesel type engines could then then run on it, generally better than they could on the animal and vegetable oils which are similar enough. Then came jet engines and industrial turbines. Benzene and light naphthas are low-flash-point gasoline-range hydrocarbon components not found in measurable amounts in jet fuel. However, other hydrocarbons found in jet fuel could one day be determined to be just as much of a political pollutant as Benzene. It's possible for the same diesel-range tank to pass all modern specifications for kerosine, diesel, and jet, though rarely done. Kerosine still has a lamp burning test, diesel has cetane requirement, turbo has various stability and trace metal specs, not shared with the other usages. No. 1 Diesel is lighter and allows for better acceleration (but use gasoline when you really need to accelerate uphill) so it's great for Mercedes or big pickup owners, No. 2 diesel is the heavier stuff for long haul trucking MPG. YMMV
- TylerE 6y ago
  https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2019/06/10/air-force-veteran-pins-cancer-diagnosis-on-valero.html https://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/news/2019/06/10/air-f... https://casetext.com/case/lambert-v-bp-products-north-america https://casetext.com/case/lambert-v-bp-products-north-americ... https://oem.bmj.com/content/60/12/969 https://oem.bmj.com/content/60/12/969 Benzene, in particular, has an accepted safe exposure level of zero.

desdiv 6y ago

Here's the Safety Data Sheet for JET A-1[0]: >H226 Flammable liquid and vapour >H315 Causes skin irritation >H336 May cause drowsiness or dizziness >H304 May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways >H411 Toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effect [0] https://www.neste.fi/static/ktt/10505_eng.pdf https://www.neste.fi/static/ktt/10505_eng.pdf

beervirus 6y ago
Sounds like kerosene.
jcranmer 6y ago
That's basically true of any fuel on the petroleum spectrum. Here's an MSDS for what you pump into your car as fuel: https://www.vercounty.org/MSDS/EMA/9950allgradesgasoline.pdf https://www.vercounty.org/MSDS/EMA/9950allgradesgasoline.pdf. Note how it's basically saying the same thing?
taneq 6y ago
So you shouldn't drink it, breathe it, or swim in it? I don't know if I'd call that "hellacious" in the "things I won't work with" sense.
- zaarn 6y ago
  For "things I won't work with" it needs atleast "flammable upon contact with skin/oxygen" or "friction explosive, no lower bound" or even "highly toxic and highly carcinogenic".
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    "so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured"

jabl 6y ago

> Jet fuel is just kerosene. Why do you say it's hellaciously toxic? It's pretty similar to other fuels like gasoline. Indeed. Jet fuel is quite similar to diesel oil, except it's slightly more volatile (on average slightly shorter hydrocarbon chains). To the point it's possible to run (some, not all) diesel engines on jet fuel. > In rural areas you can buy kerosene at gas stations, there are no special precautions above and beyond the same ones used for gasoline for cars. There's also kerosene as in lamp oil, or used as cooking fuel e.g. in camping equipment. That is a specially refined very pure form of kerosine. You shouldn't use jet fuel in your camping stove. > Perhaps you're thinking of fuel for fighter jets? Because some of those can be incredibly toxic. Some fighter jets (F-16 at least) used hydrazine (which is incredibly toxic) for some emergency power generation turbine. But the main fuel is still normal jet fuel. Though the military version of jet fuel (JP-8) contains some additives, but the effect of those is quite minor.

adwww 6y ago
Once jet fuel has been onboard an aircraft, it can't be sold to any other airline / operators due to possible contamination. So if a pilot needs an aircraft defuelled for whatever reason (maintenance, etc), some airports will simply use that fuel as diesel for their own airside vehicles.