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How can this be more energy efficient than systems using cold ocean water to dump the heat surplus? E.g. The datacenters in iceland, where Opera has its datacen

How can this be more energy efficient than systems using cold ocean water to dump the heat surplus? E.g. The datacenters in iceland, where Opera has its datacenters. Would love some more details.

rwmj 15y ago
The problem is not what to do with the heat, but how to transfer the heat more efficiently than via air (which is very inefficient so you need lots of energy to blow lots of air around). There's a cute promo video about half way down this page: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/04/12/green-revolutions-immersion-cooling-in-action/ http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/04/12/green... which shows one company's oil cooling solution.
Nitramp 15y ago
Discharging heat into nature is considered pollution by many countries by now, and in particular discharging it into bodies of water. You might simply not be allowed to do that, or you might have to pay hefty pollution taxes.
- ghshephard 15y ago
  "Discharging heat into nature is considered pollution by many countries by now" - Citation please. I'm not doubting you, this is just the first I've heard that discharging heat into nature is considered "pollution.", and I'd be interested to hear the context. I suspect it's in rare scenarios where the water it's being discharged into has a limited heat sink (small lake/river?) Regardless, I find it highly dubious that discharging heat _from a data center into an ocean_ is considered pollution by any country in the world. And I'm willing to wager no country in the world charges hefty pollution taxes for doing so. In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone, ever, has been charged pollution taxes for discharging heat into the ocean. The ocean is pretty big. The United States, in an entire year, uses enough energy to only equal 1% of what the Sun does every day in terms of heat loading. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#Energy_from_the_Sun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#Energy_from_the_Su... "The total solar energy absorbed by Earth's atmosphere, oceans and land masses is approximately 3,850,000 exajoules (EJ) per year." 1/365 of 3,850,000 exajoules = approx 10,000 exajoules. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule, " Energy in the United States used per year is roughly 105 EJ."
  - angstrom 15y ago
    I'd be surprised if places with active geothermal vents would even notice the human induced heating. In that case Iceland seems like an excellent choice. The main problem is when it comes to active fisheries being located near the effluence.
    - jarek 15y ago
      Another thing you can do is to simply use the slightly warmer water like you would use cold water. Half of downtown Toronto's office towers (including 151 Front) are cooled with water from Lake Ontario that then enters the city's water supply.
      - jmm 15y ago
        Just as Cornell U uses the water from Cayuga Lake. Pretty cool :)
  - forkandwait 15y ago
    Not a link, but I do know that discharging a bunch of hot water into a stream that is typically cold can wreak havoc with the local fishies that might be adapted to a certain environmental regime. Like anything, though, a little bit of dumping is just fine, it's when we scale to the size of human civilization that it becomes a problem.
  - pauldino 15y ago
    In the US, the Clean Water Act covers thermal pollution (well, "thermal discharges"), and based on the language it looks like the provisions have been present since 1972. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/1326.html http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/1326.html Actually I'm a bit surprised this isn't that well known with the recent focus on nuclear power, since thermal pollution and cooling system intakes that kill fish have been a minor source of controversy for some plants, including Indian Point and Vermont Yankee. Recent news on the latter: http://vermont4evolution.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/anr-to-review-vermont-yankee%E2%80%99s-water-discharge-permit/ http://vermont4evolution.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/anr-to-rev... And just for convenience here are the first few results off Google for thermal pollution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_pollution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_pollution http://www.pollutionissues.com/Te-Un/Thermal-Pollution.html http://www.pollutionissues.com/Te-Un/Thermal-Pollution.html http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/Environmental/THERMAL/tte1.htm http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/Environment...
p0ppe 15y ago
Or how about data centers that use the excess heat to provide heating for homes? http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/data-center-housed-under-catherdral-heats-homes-in-finland.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/data-center-housed-u...

How can this be more energy efficient than systems using cold ocean water to dump the heat surplus? E.g. The datacenters in iceland, where Opera has its datacenters. Would love some more details.

rwmj 15y ago

The problem is not what to do with the heat, but how to transfer the heat more efficiently than via air (which is very inefficient so you need lots of energy to blow lots of air around). There's a cute promo video about half way down this page: http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/04/12/green-revolutions-immersion-cooling-in-action/ http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/04/12/green... which shows one company's oil cooling solution.

Nitramp 15y ago

Discharging heat into nature is considered pollution by many countries by now, and in particular discharging it into bodies of water. You might simply not be allowed to do that, or you might have to pay hefty pollution taxes.

ghshephard 15y ago
"Discharging heat into nature is considered pollution by many countries by now" - Citation please. I'm not doubting you, this is just the first I've heard that discharging heat into nature is considered "pollution.", and I'd be interested to hear the context. I suspect it's in rare scenarios where the water it's being discharged into has a limited heat sink (small lake/river?) Regardless, I find it highly dubious that discharging heat _from a data center into an ocean_ is considered pollution by any country in the world. And I'm willing to wager no country in the world charges hefty pollution taxes for doing so. In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone, ever, has been charged pollution taxes for discharging heat into the ocean. The ocean is pretty big. The United States, in an entire year, uses enough energy to only equal 1% of what the Sun does every day in terms of heat loading. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#Energy_from_the_Sun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy#Energy_from_the_Su... "The total solar energy absorbed by Earth's atmosphere, oceans and land masses is approximately 3,850,000 exajoules (EJ) per year." 1/365 of 3,850,000 exajoules = approx 10,000 exajoules. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule, " Energy in the United States used per year is roughly 105 EJ."
- angstrom 15y ago
  I'd be surprised if places with active geothermal vents would even notice the human induced heating. In that case Iceland seems like an excellent choice. The main problem is when it comes to active fisheries being located near the effluence.
  - jarek 15y ago
    Another thing you can do is to simply use the slightly warmer water like you would use cold water. Half of downtown Toronto's office towers (including 151 Front) are cooled with water from Lake Ontario that then enters the city's water supply.
    - jmm 15y ago
      Just as Cornell U uses the water from Cayuga Lake. Pretty cool :)
- forkandwait 15y ago
  Not a link, but I do know that discharging a bunch of hot water into a stream that is typically cold can wreak havoc with the local fishies that might be adapted to a certain environmental regime. Like anything, though, a little bit of dumping is just fine, it's when we scale to the size of human civilization that it becomes a problem.
- pauldino 15y ago
  In the US, the Clean Water Act covers thermal pollution (well, "thermal discharges"), and based on the language it looks like the provisions have been present since 1972. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/1326.html http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/33/1326.html Actually I'm a bit surprised this isn't that well known with the recent focus on nuclear power, since thermal pollution and cooling system intakes that kill fish have been a minor source of controversy for some plants, including Indian Point and Vermont Yankee. Recent news on the latter: http://vermont4evolution.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/anr-to-review-vermont-yankee%E2%80%99s-water-discharge-permit/ http://vermont4evolution.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/anr-to-rev... And just for convenience here are the first few results off Google for thermal pollution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_pollution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_pollution http://www.pollutionissues.com/Te-Un/Thermal-Pollution.html http://www.pollutionissues.com/Te-Un/Thermal-Pollution.html http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/Environmental/THERMAL/tte1.htm http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech-Environ/Environment...

p0ppe 15y ago

Or how about data centers that use the excess heat to provide heating for homes? http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/data-center-housed-under-catherdral-heats-homes-in-finland.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/12/data-center-housed-u...