4 ms·

The film does play a major role. Many of us here on HN don't even have an face/insta/twi/tube account. We've known about this for years. But explaining it to th

The film does play a major role. Many of us here on HN don't even have an face/insta/twi/tube account. We've known about this for years. But explaining it to the layperson makes you sound like you are paranoid. The movie explains it very well. (although they omit Netflix as a culprit). Here is one thing that I have a hard time explaining to people. Fun is the enemy. Or at least the enemy is disguised as. When you share a meme, it's because it's fun. No harm there. But memes are fuel that keep the system going. People are not being misinformed (only) because the media is spewing conspiracies. They are misinformed because they are getting their news from facebook memes. You know those low quality screenshot of a news article? Or the set of 3 pictures that shows an exaggerated reaction to some news? Or worse, the twitter screenshot with no context? It is funny. That's why we share it. But when you realize what is happening in the background, it is not funny anymore. Edit: I wish they had added some metric to the little bell on top: https://i.imgur.com/WNFThds.png https://i.imgur.com/WNFThds.png . it would have shown how much the little red circle entices you to click.

vasilipupkin 6y ago
It seems to me that the hypothesis that somehow social media is generating more misinformation than before is an exercise in ignoring all human history before 2004 ish. People were always misinformed, how do you explain the whole 20th century otherwise.
- foxfired 6y ago
  You are right, people were misinformed from the dawn of history. But never before in history has the real information been so available. If you believed that pharaoh was a God, well there was no way to know otherwise. Not only you didn't know how to read, but if you did, all the writing did confirm he was, in fact, a God. Today, information about counter arguments is available for any claim. If it sounds suspicious, you can use the discretion of your mobile device and look up 2 or 3 different opinions. You can read the study. You can listen to experts in the field. You can do all that before the king finishes his speech.
  - rapind 6y ago
    If the truth sounds suspicious, you can look that up to, and find plenty of counter arguments with pseudo or self proclaimed authorities. Flat earthers don't just read one article and suddenly they believe it. They spend a lot of time going down rabbit holes reading and watching all sorts of stuff. There's good information out there, but there's also a swamp of bullshit pretending not to be that you have to wade through.
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      And not only do flat earthers not read reputable sources to soberly reflect on the matter, but often the truth or falsehood of their preferred conspiracy theory is not really the point. A lot of people are getting into Flat Earth, QAnon, or 5G-causes-whatever because those forums offer them a sense of community that satisfies their emotional needs. Perpetuating the conspiracy theory is just the ritual they must perform to keep the group vibe going, but in itself the conspiracy isn’t all that really important (as destructive as its side-effects are for the rest of the world). I think the challenge for defeating those theories is providing the poor, undereducated and marginalized a more wholesome way to spend their time among other people. That is a hard challenge when community centers and churches are no longer a significant thing in many locations, and now the COVID lockdown means even less real-life socializing.
      - the_af 6y ago
        I agree with much of your post, except this: > I think the challenge for defeating those theories is providing the poor, undereducated and marginalized a more wholesome way to spend their time among other people. Why do you think it's the poor who buy into these theories? I live in a relatively well to do neighborhood (not in the US) and I've seen plenty of anti-5G banners hanging from balconies, there are plenty of anti vaxxers, plenty of people who think COVID19 is a hoax, and I know some people tangentially related to flat earthers (via some new age beliefs). These are all educated people.
        Mediterraneo10 6y ago
- npunt 6y ago
  The dose makes the poison. Almost everything in life is about 'how much' not 'is or isn't'. The vectors we have to spread misinformation nowadays are far more powerful and readily available than ever before. What was once a (literal) walk from one village to the next is now an express line straight into the brains of thousands to millions. It's easier to destroy truth and reality than it ever has been.
  - vasilipupkin 6y ago
    Where is the evidence for this hypothesis that it’s easier than ever before ? Communists, Nazis had absolutely no trouble destroying truth. History is full of this.
    - intended 6y ago
      There are studies showing how conspiracy theories travel vs scientific information - what would count as evidence?
      - unityByFreedom 6y ago
        I think the poster above is suggesting that whatever conditions led to worldwide tensions (and world war) may be resurfacing now. Not that these tensions always existed to this degree. Just that they have before, and are again now.
        intended 6y ago
        I get the point. In my experience I can safely say that Social Media impact on our information ecosystem is a huge step change from anything we have seen before, to the point that it is effectively new. That the current problems build on human neuronal frailties that have existed since the dawn of time, is also true. So it is natural this conversational junction will come up repeatedly in future conversations. How do we answer it and settle the issue comprehensively? Hence the question.
        6y ago
- sjy 6y ago
  People were always misinformed, but now misinformers operate at web scale. Thus, more misinformation.
  - vasilipupkin 6y ago
    Information is also operating at web scale, so it’s not obvious that the net effect is more misinformed population than before.
aaron695 6y ago
> Many of us here on HN don't even have an face/insta/twi/tube account. We've known about this for years. No. HN does not get it at all. You never see coherent explanations on HN. This movie got it pretty well. Far better than HN. I think people on HN can see there are problems with Social Media, they are smarter than the general population, and technical, so know alternatives. They see the smoke and can act correctly be they don't get the problem at all.

vasilipupkin 6y ago

It seems to me that the hypothesis that somehow social media is generating more misinformation than before is an exercise in ignoring all human history before 2004 ish. People were always misinformed, how do you explain the whole 20th century otherwise.

foxfired 6y ago
You are right, people were misinformed from the dawn of history. But never before in history has the real information been so available. If you believed that pharaoh was a God, well there was no way to know otherwise. Not only you didn't know how to read, but if you did, all the writing did confirm he was, in fact, a God. Today, information about counter arguments is available for any claim. If it sounds suspicious, you can use the discretion of your mobile device and look up 2 or 3 different opinions. You can read the study. You can listen to experts in the field. You can do all that before the king finishes his speech.
- rapind 6y ago
  If the truth sounds suspicious, you can look that up to, and find plenty of counter arguments with pseudo or self proclaimed authorities. Flat earthers don't just read one article and suddenly they believe it. They spend a lot of time going down rabbit holes reading and watching all sorts of stuff. There's good information out there, but there's also a swamp of bullshit pretending not to be that you have to wade through.
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    And not only do flat earthers not read reputable sources to soberly reflect on the matter, but often the truth or falsehood of their preferred conspiracy theory is not really the point. A lot of people are getting into Flat Earth, QAnon, or 5G-causes-whatever because those forums offer them a sense of community that satisfies their emotional needs. Perpetuating the conspiracy theory is just the ritual they must perform to keep the group vibe going, but in itself the conspiracy isn’t all that really important (as destructive as its side-effects are for the rest of the world). I think the challenge for defeating those theories is providing the poor, undereducated and marginalized a more wholesome way to spend their time among other people. That is a hard challenge when community centers and churches are no longer a significant thing in many locations, and now the COVID lockdown means even less real-life socializing.
    - the_af 6y ago
      I agree with much of your post, except this: > I think the challenge for defeating those theories is providing the poor, undereducated and marginalized a more wholesome way to spend their time among other people. Why do you think it's the poor who buy into these theories? I live in a relatively well to do neighborhood (not in the US) and I've seen plenty of anti-5G banners hanging from balconies, there are plenty of anti vaxxers, plenty of people who think COVID19 is a hoax, and I know some people tangentially related to flat earthers (via some new age beliefs). These are all educated people.
      - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
npunt 6y ago
The dose makes the poison. Almost everything in life is about 'how much' not 'is or isn't'. The vectors we have to spread misinformation nowadays are far more powerful and readily available than ever before. What was once a (literal) walk from one village to the next is now an express line straight into the brains of thousands to millions. It's easier to destroy truth and reality than it ever has been.
- vasilipupkin 6y ago
  Where is the evidence for this hypothesis that it’s easier than ever before ? Communists, Nazis had absolutely no trouble destroying truth. History is full of this.
  - intended 6y ago
    There are studies showing how conspiracy theories travel vs scientific information - what would count as evidence?
    - unityByFreedom 6y ago
      I think the poster above is suggesting that whatever conditions led to worldwide tensions (and world war) may be resurfacing now. Not that these tensions always existed to this degree. Just that they have before, and are again now.
      - intended 6y ago
        I get the point. In my experience I can safely say that Social Media impact on our information ecosystem is a huge step change from anything we have seen before, to the point that it is effectively new. That the current problems build on human neuronal frailties that have existed since the dawn of time, is also true. So it is natural this conversational junction will come up repeatedly in future conversations. How do we answer it and settle the issue comprehensively? Hence the question.
        6y ago
sjy 6y ago
People were always misinformed, but now misinformers operate at web scale. Thus, more misinformation.
- vasilipupkin 6y ago
  Information is also operating at web scale, so it’s not obvious that the net effect is more misinformed population than before.

aaron695 6y ago

> Many of us here on HN don't even have an face/insta/twi/tube account. We've known about this for years. No. HN does not get it at all. You never see coherent explanations on HN. This movie got it pretty well. Far better than HN. I think people on HN can see there are problems with Social Media, they are smarter than the general population, and technical, so know alternatives. They see the smoke and can act correctly be they don't get the problem at all.