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And 77% of conservative and strong conservatives don't want to share their views because they feel that they will offend someone. (from the article) Is that be

by cbanek 6y ago

And 77% of conservative and strong conservatives don't want to share their views because they feel that they will offend someone. (from the article) Is that because those views are hard to say, argue, or back up with fact? If you think your views offend a lot of people, doesn't that mean you should maybe examine why you have those views, or why those views offend others? But it doesn't seem like that's happening, people are just shutting down and would rather not even talk, unless its to their echo chamber. In general I think this is a bad thing, as it's a whole new level of denial in that people don't even want to argue about things anymore. Breakdowns in communications never bode well for relationships, and I don't think this is any different.

rbecker 6y ago
> If you think your views offend a lot of people, doesn't that mean you should maybe examine why you have those views Why do you assume they haven't examined those views, and decided to keep them? Especially since it's popular views that are easier to hold without examination, as they by definition get challenged less.
dpc_pw 6y ago
Here's a story for you of someone who's opinion offended a lot of people. https://www.businessinsider.com/the-lone-german-man-who-refused-to-give-hitler-the-nazi-salute-2015-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/the-lone-german-man-who-refu... Maybe he should have "examine why he have those views, or why those views offend others?"
- cbanek 6y ago
  I think that's fascinating! Very interesting, thanks! And yeah, he should have, and probably did. And is braver than I would probably be in the same situation. I'm not saying anyone's beliefs are wrong at all. I have many beliefs that probably offend others and I don't want to talk about. Many of these fall into a "to each their own." But they aren't political, and I'm certainly not trying to influence law or policy or push them on others. For political views, when you are talking about law and affecting everyone, I think it's important to talk about these. In general for me, examining my beliefs I've always considered a very positive activity. Sometimes it strengthens them, or makes me question. Having people question my beliefs makes me think. Either way I feel stronger by the end of it, even if there is some discomfort in the middle. I think it's beliefs that we aren't willing to think about or question that scare me the most personally.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "If you think your views offend a lot of people, doesn't that mean you should maybe examine why you have those views..." Being an atheist or agnostic used to be offensive to a lot of people. Should people have "examined why they have those views" and the West have remained a thoroughly religious society instead of secular? Obviously not. Other examples abound, including the transition to democracy from monarchy and the civil rights movement itself. Your argument is basically conservatism in a nutshell: whatever the current zeitgeist is or was at any given time was "right" and things should remain or should have remained that way indefinitely.
- jkepler 6y ago
  Today, many Christians are disparaged by atheists, as the assumption of many in western late-modern cultures is that public discourse ought to be secular. Yet this is often based on an assumed common ground of Enlightenment humanism, with an a priori ruling out of any possible religious basis for claims. However, as Kuhn and Polyani have shown, science is a very human endeavor, full of underlying beliefs and assumptions that color and guide inquires, as well as setting conceptual limits on what is and isn't possible. Many of the great early-modern scientists (Kepler, Newton, and Boyle come to mind) were driven by their Christian convictions to break with older inaccurate theories and follow the observational data. I think much of the deep political divide in our culture ties back to a philosophical rejection of truth, à la Nietzsche, leaving only the raw power grabs. As a Christian who believes truth is both real and objective, yet also has a personal/relational character, I'm particularly saddened when Christian communities participate in power grabs that perpetuate deep political divides rather than living our a self-giving love that would build trust for conversations across political (or racial or socioeconomic) divides. Its acceptance of a secular zeitgeist that tolerates no real diversity of viewpoints, and Christians easily fall into the same habits.
- Jordrok 6y ago
  You're conflating thoughtful self-examination of your own beliefs and the motivations behind them with simply abandoning those beliefs. Just because you hold a belief that goes against the majority opinion doesn't necessarily mean that you're wrong, but neither does it give any guarantee that you are right, either. These are exactly the cases which warrant the most thorough research and self-examination. The point that the parent is trying to make is that so often, nowadays especially, people will simply shut down and refuse to hear any challenges to their most tightly held beliefs. Instead, they choose to retreat to the comfort of like-minded echo chambers - something that is all too easy with the prevalence of algorithmically reinforced Facebook news feeds and heavily moderated subreddits which explicitly ban any dissenting opinions.
ConceptJunkie 6y ago
> Is that because those views are hard to say, argue, or back up with fact? Perhaps it is because of what I experience: People get offended and then attack you rather than responding to what you say. The most bigoted and nasty people I've ever met online are usually liberals. It's very uncommon to find someone in most forums who will actually discuss things rationally and civilly. This didn't used to be the case.

by cbanek 6y ago

rbecker 6y ago

> If you think your views offend a lot of people, doesn't that mean you should maybe examine why you have those views Why do you assume they haven't examined those views, and decided to keep them? Especially since it's popular views that are easier to hold without examination, as they by definition get challenged less.

dpc_pw 6y ago

Here's a story for you of someone who's opinion offended a lot of people. https://www.businessinsider.com/the-lone-german-man-who-refused-to-give-hitler-the-nazi-salute-2015-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/the-lone-german-man-who-refu... Maybe he should have "examine why he have those views, or why those views offend others?"

cbanek 6y ago
I think that's fascinating! Very interesting, thanks! And yeah, he should have, and probably did. And is braver than I would probably be in the same situation. I'm not saying anyone's beliefs are wrong at all. I have many beliefs that probably offend others and I don't want to talk about. Many of these fall into a "to each their own." But they aren't political, and I'm certainly not trying to influence law or policy or push them on others. For political views, when you are talking about law and affecting everyone, I think it's important to talk about these. In general for me, examining my beliefs I've always considered a very positive activity. Sometimes it strengthens them, or makes me question. Having people question my beliefs makes me think. Either way I feel stronger by the end of it, even if there is some discomfort in the middle. I think it's beliefs that we aren't willing to think about or question that scare me the most personally.

ThrowawayR2 6y ago

> "If you think your views offend a lot of people, doesn't that mean you should maybe examine why you have those views..." Being an atheist or agnostic used to be offensive to a lot of people. Should people have "examined why they have those views" and the West have remained a thoroughly religious society instead of secular? Obviously not. Other examples abound, including the transition to democracy from monarchy and the civil rights movement itself. Your argument is basically conservatism in a nutshell: whatever the current zeitgeist is or was at any given time was "right" and things should remain or should have remained that way indefinitely.

jkepler 6y ago
Today, many Christians are disparaged by atheists, as the assumption of many in western late-modern cultures is that public discourse ought to be secular. Yet this is often based on an assumed common ground of Enlightenment humanism, with an a priori ruling out of any possible religious basis for claims. However, as Kuhn and Polyani have shown, science is a very human endeavor, full of underlying beliefs and assumptions that color and guide inquires, as well as setting conceptual limits on what is and isn't possible. Many of the great early-modern scientists (Kepler, Newton, and Boyle come to mind) were driven by their Christian convictions to break with older inaccurate theories and follow the observational data. I think much of the deep political divide in our culture ties back to a philosophical rejection of truth, à la Nietzsche, leaving only the raw power grabs. As a Christian who believes truth is both real and objective, yet also has a personal/relational character, I'm particularly saddened when Christian communities participate in power grabs that perpetuate deep political divides rather than living our a self-giving love that would build trust for conversations across political (or racial or socioeconomic) divides. Its acceptance of a secular zeitgeist that tolerates no real diversity of viewpoints, and Christians easily fall into the same habits.
Jordrok 6y ago
You're conflating thoughtful self-examination of your own beliefs and the motivations behind them with simply abandoning those beliefs. Just because you hold a belief that goes against the majority opinion doesn't necessarily mean that you're wrong, but neither does it give any guarantee that you are right, either. These are exactly the cases which warrant the most thorough research and self-examination. The point that the parent is trying to make is that so often, nowadays especially, people will simply shut down and refuse to hear any challenges to their most tightly held beliefs. Instead, they choose to retreat to the comfort of like-minded echo chambers - something that is all too easy with the prevalence of algorithmically reinforced Facebook news feeds and heavily moderated subreddits which explicitly ban any dissenting opinions.

ConceptJunkie 6y ago

> Is that because those views are hard to say, argue, or back up with fact? Perhaps it is because of what I experience: People get offended and then attack you rather than responding to what you say. The most bigoted and nasty people I've ever met online are usually liberals. It's very uncommon to find someone in most forums who will actually discuss things rationally and civilly. This didn't used to be the case.