6 ms·

My office (well, former office) used to have a touchscreen coffee maker. Why does a coffee maker even need a touchscreen? There are literally three options!

vidanay 6y ago
Our old office had a $5k fancy coffee maker with touch screen. Nobody knew what the hell all the icons meant, and nobody cleaned the milk siphon so it went moldy and was thrown out after two weeks. I insisted that we keep the old Bunn that had an advanced UI with a red illuminated On-Off switch. Six months later, it was the only one coffee maker still in use.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- paulcole 6y ago
  > Nobody knew what the hell all the icons meant, and nobody cleaned the milk siphon so it went moldy and was thrown out after two weeks. What’s the takeaway here? A group of spoiled adults couldn’t be bothered to read an instruction manual or clean something?
  - teknologist 6y ago
    Fancy touch screens could potentially tell users how/when to clean stuff?
  - ionwake 6y ago
    That the UI was shit and you’re the kind of person who endorses it.
    - dang 6y ago
      Personal attacks will get you banned on HN, so please don't do that here. Also can you please stop posting in the flamewar style? You've done it repeatedly lately, and it's against the site rules because we're trying for something a bit different on this site. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and posting in the intended spirit, we'd be grateful.
      - ionwake 6y ago
        Sorry, I caused offence and will be more careful.
        dang 6y ago
        Appreciated!
  - rytis 6y ago
    I guess the takeaway is that everyday utility instruments should not require time invested in studying manuals to operate them. Imagine that every screwdriver you buy requires you to read 20 page document that tells you how to operate it. As a user all I want is "a cup of coffee". Why do I need to read that manual? What if I'm just a visitor, and was told that "the coffee machine is over there". Do I really want to read the manual to get a cup of coffee?
    - paulcole 6y ago
      Somebody buys you a $5,000 screwdriver. Do you just use it wrong, not take care of it, and ruin it to make a point about how all you wanted was to turn a screw?
      - nicoburns 6y ago
        If that screwdriver makes it more difficult to turn a screw than a $50 screwdriver (or a $5 screwdriver) then... maybe?
        paulcole 6y ago
        Another thing being missed here is that the users in the original post didn’t want just a cup of coffee. If that’s all they wanted, they wouldn’t have used, not cleaned, and ruined the milk steaming wand.
      - kempbellt 6y ago
        You sell it, buy a regular screw driver, and spend the rest on cookies
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      Fortunately, my cheapo coffee machine has only one button - a mechanical rocker on switch. Unfortunately, it uses icons for which side is "ON", so I rock it until it starts getting warmer.
  - chronolitus 6y ago
    This kind of argument always ticks me off, because it's technically correct, assuming your brain can care and focus on infinitely many things. But I know that I can't: I can care very effectively about one thing really well (typically oscillating between my job and family). Then there's space left in my brain to be sort-of effective at caring for three or four other things (social life, hobbies, sports, learning, personal growth, etc..). There's a little space in the end for things which are good, but I can't afford to think about more than the minimum amount necessary (voting, taxes, coffee machines, subscription services, recycling, keeping my plants alive, car/motorcycle maintenance, ...). So the point is, I really really value things which don't require me to care or RTFM, because that frees me up to care and focus more on my job, family and friends. Maybe that's being spoiled, but it feels more to me like a pragmatic approach to mental health and productivity.
    - paulcole 6y ago
      I think what’s striking me as being spoiled is using the thing, intentionally not taking care of it, and ruining it.
      - Reason077 6y ago
        In a communal environment such as an office, complex equipment that requires maintenance and reading the manual is always going to be problematic without someone who's job it is to explicitly maintain it. That's why $5000 coffee machines normally come with either a maintenance contract, where someone comes around regularly to restock/clean/maintain it, or you have a designated person or department within your company who's job it is to take care of them.
  - toast0 6y ago
    The takeaway is don't buy something that requires maintenance without a plan for who is going to do the maintenance. Coffee machines that use milk products need to have (at least) daily maintenance; for a commons coffee machine it's better to get the model without automated milk processing, or declare it's not to be hooked up or used.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    > couldn’t be bothered to read an instruction manual The manual for a new car is an inch thick, and flipping through it while driving trying to figure out how to turn on the defroster is BAD BAD BAD BAD design.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > Nobody knew what the hell all the icons meant Still can't figure out how to turn on the defroster in a new car. My old truck was simple - turn the knob to "DEFROST". My cat feeder invented all its own icons, trying to get it set up is a nightmare. I keep the instruction manual next to it. I hate Steve Jobs for convincing the world that written words are bad and random cute pictures are cool. Please, bring back "DELETE".
  - pilsetnieks 6y ago
    Did Steve Jobs really do that? Unless you mean going from a text based CLI to a graphic UI but even those had plenty of words, especially those well thought out. When Jobs had to choose a washing machine for his family, he chose a Miele with plenty of words on it: https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washerdryer/ https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washer...
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      > Did Steve Jobs really do that? Famously, using a trash can instead of "DELETE". A Mac evangelist came to my workplace shortly after the Mac was released. His entire presentation was about how icons were far better than words. He asserted the function of the icons was obvious, and so needed no explanation. He passed around a sheet of paper with a bunch of icons on it, and said isn't that right? This all fell apart when nobody could figure out what the box of Kleenex icon was. He was visibly flustered by this, eventually exclaiming that it meant "PRINT". This was all made worse by the practice of copyrighting icons so every company invented their same-only-different icons. But, the Mac won anyway and PRINT and DEFROST became hopelessly uncool, unhip and old-fashioned. I predict that, like all hieroglyphic writing systems, icons will eventually evolve to have associated sounds with them, then they'll morph into simple pen strokes, then we'll be back to a new phonetic alphabet.
      - puranjay 6y ago
        Words are better than icons - as long as you speak the language.
masklinn 6y ago
> Why does a coffee maker even need a touchscreen? There are literally three options! What’s the option besides on and off, keep warm?
- coldtea 6y ago
  Depending on the coffee maker there can be a dozen or more options. A home espresso maker might adjust how many "shots" to drip, different temperatures, adding milk or not, etc.
  - masklinn 6y ago
    > Depending on the coffee maker there can be a dozen or more options. Yes but that’s not relevant, I’m asking specifically what the third option would be in a or with 3 options.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      Yes, but you still seemed surprised there are could be more than two options. You didn't explicitly ask "what would a 3rd option, given 3 options only, would be". That said, most classic home espresso machines have 3 buttons: (a) on/off toggle, (b) coffee/hot water toggle, (c) steam toggle.
- vidanay 6y ago
  Coffee, Cappuccino, Latte, Frappe All of the above multiplied by small, medium, large. All of the above multiplied by weak, normal, strong, and double shot. All of the above multiplied by zone defense, man to coverage, and missile command.
  - Skunkleton 6y ago
    Is it even a coffee maker if it doesn't run DOOM?
  - bashinator 6y ago
    So, four selector dials?
avian 6y ago
Had a similar experience. Also, the guy with the desk closest to the machine quickly got fed up of everyone asking “how do I just get a normal coffee out of this?”
Skunkleton 6y ago
I love my coffee maker so much. It has one chunky physical switch and no other controls or moving parts. No wifi, no smart bs, no pointless brew size settings, its not spying on me, or inflicting me with DRM. I've had it for over 10 years now, and have had to perform no maintenance.
- YarickR2 6y ago
  You'll love this https://www.flairespresso.com/ https://www.flairespresso.com/ Besides doing damn good espresso , it isn't even connected to the grid
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Natales 6y ago
  Same. About 10 years ago I bought a Jura-Capresso super automatic coffee machine (S7). Very simple. 4 buttons. Small matrix text display with a good UX. Really nothing fancy. I clean it when it asks me to, and that's all the maintenance it needs. I recently looked at the latest models, and they've basically have not changed. Maybe a bit more silent. That's it. The rest is all connectivity and LCDs. Solutions looking for a problem.
- ClikeX 6y ago
  I got a Saeco full-automatic machine. It has no DRM or spyware to speak of. All the features work through physical buttons. The smartest thing it does is tell me to replace my water filter or that I need to descale. Which is really just a matter of counting.
appleiigs 6y ago
I love my cuisinart ddc-1200 coffee maker. Has two knobs and an old fashion toggle switch. I realize it's not a pure mechanical switch but at least they're still using a physical switch. https://www.cuisinart.com/shopping/appliances/coffee_makers/dcc-1200/ https://www.cuisinart.com/shopping/appliances/coffee_makers/...
pwg 6y ago
> Why does a coffee maker even need a touchscreen? To differentiate it from the previous model so as to sell new product when the previous model that has already been purchased is continuing to perform its designated task. I.e., to convince some segment of their customer base to throw out the working model from last year in exchange for the "new fancy" model of this year. Humans are often fooled way too many times by "oohhh... shiny and new and different... gotta have that...".
rhacker 6y ago
3 options? I think on all the coffee pots I've owned it's just a POWER button. How can a company replace that with a screen to be better?
skohan 6y ago
Didn't you hear? These millenials spend all day on their phones! They must love touchscreens.
whywhywhywhy 6y ago
>Why does a coffee maker even need a touchscreen? It's probably cheaper than physical buttons and can be used across multiple SKUs where each one would require it's own set of buttons otherwise. Oh it can show you adverts too. Objectively worse in every way to the end user than a nice set of buttons.

vidanay 6y ago

Our old office had a $5k fancy coffee maker with touch screen. Nobody knew what the hell all the icons meant, and nobody cleaned the milk siphon so it went moldy and was thrown out after two weeks. I insisted that we keep the old Bunn that had an advanced UI with a red illuminated On-Off switch. Six months later, it was the only one coffee maker still in use.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
paulcole 6y ago
> Nobody knew what the hell all the icons meant, and nobody cleaned the milk siphon so it went moldy and was thrown out after two weeks. What’s the takeaway here? A group of spoiled adults couldn’t be bothered to read an instruction manual or clean something?
- teknologist 6y ago
  Fancy touch screens could potentially tell users how/when to clean stuff?
- ionwake 6y ago
  That the UI was shit and you’re the kind of person who endorses it.
  - dang 6y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned on HN, so please don't do that here. Also can you please stop posting in the flamewar style? You've done it repeatedly lately, and it's against the site rules because we're trying for something a bit different on this site. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and posting in the intended spirit, we'd be grateful.
    - ionwake 6y ago
      Sorry, I caused offence and will be more careful.
      - dang 6y ago
        Appreciated!
- rytis 6y ago
  I guess the takeaway is that everyday utility instruments should not require time invested in studying manuals to operate them. Imagine that every screwdriver you buy requires you to read 20 page document that tells you how to operate it. As a user all I want is "a cup of coffee". Why do I need to read that manual? What if I'm just a visitor, and was told that "the coffee machine is over there". Do I really want to read the manual to get a cup of coffee?
  - paulcole 6y ago
    Somebody buys you a $5,000 screwdriver. Do you just use it wrong, not take care of it, and ruin it to make a point about how all you wanted was to turn a screw?
    - nicoburns 6y ago
      If that screwdriver makes it more difficult to turn a screw than a $50 screwdriver (or a $5 screwdriver) then... maybe?
      - paulcole 6y ago
        Another thing being missed here is that the users in the original post didn’t want just a cup of coffee. If that’s all they wanted, they wouldn’t have used, not cleaned, and ruined the milk steaming wand.
    - kempbellt 6y ago
      You sell it, buy a regular screw driver, and spend the rest on cookies
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    Fortunately, my cheapo coffee machine has only one button - a mechanical rocker on switch. Unfortunately, it uses icons for which side is "ON", so I rock it until it starts getting warmer.
- chronolitus 6y ago
  This kind of argument always ticks me off, because it's technically correct, assuming your brain can care and focus on infinitely many things. But I know that I can't: I can care very effectively about one thing really well (typically oscillating between my job and family). Then there's space left in my brain to be sort-of effective at caring for three or four other things (social life, hobbies, sports, learning, personal growth, etc..). There's a little space in the end for things which are good, but I can't afford to think about more than the minimum amount necessary (voting, taxes, coffee machines, subscription services, recycling, keeping my plants alive, car/motorcycle maintenance, ...). So the point is, I really really value things which don't require me to care or RTFM, because that frees me up to care and focus more on my job, family and friends. Maybe that's being spoiled, but it feels more to me like a pragmatic approach to mental health and productivity.
  - paulcole 6y ago
    I think what’s striking me as being spoiled is using the thing, intentionally not taking care of it, and ruining it.
    - Reason077 6y ago
      In a communal environment such as an office, complex equipment that requires maintenance and reading the manual is always going to be problematic without someone who's job it is to explicitly maintain it. That's why $5000 coffee machines normally come with either a maintenance contract, where someone comes around regularly to restock/clean/maintain it, or you have a designated person or department within your company who's job it is to take care of them.
- toast0 6y ago
  The takeaway is don't buy something that requires maintenance without a plan for who is going to do the maintenance. Coffee machines that use milk products need to have (at least) daily maintenance; for a commons coffee machine it's better to get the model without automated milk processing, or declare it's not to be hooked up or used.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > couldn’t be bothered to read an instruction manual The manual for a new car is an inch thick, and flipping through it while driving trying to figure out how to turn on the defroster is BAD BAD BAD BAD design.
WalterBright 6y ago
> Nobody knew what the hell all the icons meant Still can't figure out how to turn on the defroster in a new car. My old truck was simple - turn the knob to "DEFROST". My cat feeder invented all its own icons, trying to get it set up is a nightmare. I keep the instruction manual next to it. I hate Steve Jobs for convincing the world that written words are bad and random cute pictures are cool. Please, bring back "DELETE".
- pilsetnieks 6y ago
  Did Steve Jobs really do that? Unless you mean going from a text based CLI to a graphic UI but even those had plenty of words, especially those well thought out. When Jobs had to choose a washing machine for his family, he chose a Miele with plenty of words on it: https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washerdryer/ https://9to5mac.com/2011/03/07/how-steve-jobs-picks-a-washer...
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    > Did Steve Jobs really do that? Famously, using a trash can instead of "DELETE". A Mac evangelist came to my workplace shortly after the Mac was released. His entire presentation was about how icons were far better than words. He asserted the function of the icons was obvious, and so needed no explanation. He passed around a sheet of paper with a bunch of icons on it, and said isn't that right? This all fell apart when nobody could figure out what the box of Kleenex icon was. He was visibly flustered by this, eventually exclaiming that it meant "PRINT". This was all made worse by the practice of copyrighting icons so every company invented their same-only-different icons. But, the Mac won anyway and PRINT and DEFROST became hopelessly uncool, unhip and old-fashioned. I predict that, like all hieroglyphic writing systems, icons will eventually evolve to have associated sounds with them, then they'll morph into simple pen strokes, then we'll be back to a new phonetic alphabet.
    - puranjay 6y ago
      Words are better than icons - as long as you speak the language.

masklinn 6y ago

> Why does a coffee maker even need a touchscreen? There are literally three options! What’s the option besides on and off, keep warm?

coldtea 6y ago
Depending on the coffee maker there can be a dozen or more options. A home espresso maker might adjust how many "shots" to drip, different temperatures, adding milk or not, etc.
- masklinn 6y ago
  > Depending on the coffee maker there can be a dozen or more options. Yes but that’s not relevant, I’m asking specifically what the third option would be in a or with 3 options.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    Yes, but you still seemed surprised there are could be more than two options. You didn't explicitly ask "what would a 3rd option, given 3 options only, would be". That said, most classic home espresso machines have 3 buttons: (a) on/off toggle, (b) coffee/hot water toggle, (c) steam toggle.
vidanay 6y ago
Coffee, Cappuccino, Latte, Frappe All of the above multiplied by small, medium, large. All of the above multiplied by weak, normal, strong, and double shot. All of the above multiplied by zone defense, man to coverage, and missile command.
- Skunkleton 6y ago
  Is it even a coffee maker if it doesn't run DOOM?
- bashinator 6y ago
  So, four selector dials?

avian 6y ago

Had a similar experience. Also, the guy with the desk closest to the machine quickly got fed up of everyone asking “how do I just get a normal coffee out of this?”

Skunkleton 6y ago

I love my coffee maker so much. It has one chunky physical switch and no other controls or moving parts. No wifi, no smart bs, no pointless brew size settings, its not spying on me, or inflicting me with DRM. I've had it for over 10 years now, and have had to perform no maintenance.

YarickR2 6y ago
You'll love this https://www.flairespresso.com/ https://www.flairespresso.com/ Besides doing damn good espresso , it isn't even connected to the grid
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Natales 6y ago
Same. About 10 years ago I bought a Jura-Capresso super automatic coffee machine (S7). Very simple. 4 buttons. Small matrix text display with a good UX. Really nothing fancy. I clean it when it asks me to, and that's all the maintenance it needs. I recently looked at the latest models, and they've basically have not changed. Maybe a bit more silent. That's it. The rest is all connectivity and LCDs. Solutions looking for a problem.
ClikeX 6y ago
I got a Saeco full-automatic machine. It has no DRM or spyware to speak of. All the features work through physical buttons. The smartest thing it does is tell me to replace my water filter or that I need to descale. Which is really just a matter of counting.

appleiigs 6y ago

I love my cuisinart ddc-1200 coffee maker. Has two knobs and an old fashion toggle switch. I realize it's not a pure mechanical switch but at least they're still using a physical switch. https://www.cuisinart.com/shopping/appliances/coffee_makers/dcc-1200/ https://www.cuisinart.com/shopping/appliances/coffee_makers/...

pwg 6y ago

> Why does a coffee maker even need a touchscreen? To differentiate it from the previous model so as to sell new product when the previous model that has already been purchased is continuing to perform its designated task. I.e., to convince some segment of their customer base to throw out the working model from last year in exchange for the "new fancy" model of this year. Humans are often fooled way too many times by "oohhh... shiny and new and different... gotta have that...".

rhacker 6y ago

3 options? I think on all the coffee pots I've owned it's just a POWER button. How can a company replace that with a screen to be better?

skohan 6y ago

Didn't you hear? These millenials spend all day on their phones! They must love touchscreens.

whywhywhywhy 6y ago

>Why does a coffee maker even need a touchscreen? It's probably cheaper than physical buttons and can be used across multiple SKUs where each one would require it's own set of buttons otherwise. Oh it can show you adverts too. Objectively worse in every way to the end user than a nice set of buttons.