8 ms·

With one specific exception - stereo volume knobs often - virtually always - suffer from stereo imbalance, where the volume of the left and right channels are s

With one specific exception - stereo volume knobs often - virtually always - suffer from stereo imbalance, where the volume of the left and right channels are slightly different. Some high-end amplifiers offer a relay based volume system where the knob simply switches resistors in and out of the audio path using relays to adjust the volume, and although this does result in "steps" of volume, it does mean the stereo balance is always perfect.

formerly_proven 6y ago
That's a problem mostly caused by using passive log-taper circuits, instead of alternate active volume control circuits that use linear-taper pots, which have sufficiently good tolerance and ganging in low-cost dual units. But these circuits require 1-2 op amps per channel and those 20 cents are too much in three-figure hardware. Ganged log-taper pots have something like +-3 or +-6 dB ganging mismatch even for relatively high-end (10-15 € ea) units.
- qppo 6y ago
  I've seen/heard this in $100 units from Schiit. Not to mention the poor hand soldering job that cost more money because a human did it in America.
  - SSLy 6y ago
    You get what it says on the packaging
  - cthalupa 6y ago
    Send 'em an email. Their $100 units are some of the best testing amps/dacs in the price range, so even from a purely subjectivist standpoint they make stuff that generally works pretty well. If you're encountering issues, then they will usually make good on it. The stereo imbalance is just something you're gonna see at basically every amp at that price point.
    - aleph_naught 6y ago
      I got the Modi2/Magni2 set for my HD650s when they originally came out. Total disappointment: pots had static when inc/dec vol, and had balancing issues. The headphone amp on my macbook didn’t suffer from any of that, was indistinguishable in sound quality with a blind test, and was way less hassle. Only difference was that it didn’t get as loud, but since I don’t listen past the macbooks max, I put them in the closet and never looked back.
      - cthalupa 6y ago
        That's unfortunate. I use planar headphones, so a dedicated amp is pretty much a requirement due to the power draw vs. regular dyamics. I opted for a Schiit Bifrost/Asgard stack (they didn't have the magni/modi combo at the time) and had great experiences with them. I opted to perform one of the upgrades for the Bifrost myself, and after that had some issues with the DAC resetting and audio cutting out - emailed Schiit, told them what I had done to troubleshoot, and they shipped me a replacement upgrade part the next day.
- microcolonel 6y ago
  You can also just use an ADC in the sound chipset, since your average consumer electronics Class D amplifier is going to be adequate at any digital level, provided the circuit is not designed by a lower primate.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    I feel personally attacked
liability 6y ago
Things like this make me glad I'm not an audiophile. What you describe seems very annoying, but thankfully I've never noticed anything like it.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  I don't think there's much benefit to being an audiophile, unless you're so rich you can actually enjoy your insanely expensive setup in your sound-proofed room with your specially-purchased lossless audio sources. Luckily, very few people who claim to be audiophiles can actually hear the difference in a blind test. https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/...
  - Natales 6y ago
    Don't judge all of us audiophiles with a blanket statement. Yes, measured hearing capacity is definitely a key metric to know (why invest in super tweeters when you can't hear past 18KHz for example), but room acoustics is probably the very next thing I'd look at. I've seen so much "expensive" gear in rooms that are absolutely horrid in terms of sound reflections. Just a carpet, curtains or a couple of cheap sound panels can make wonders in improving sound if you know just a bit of the physics of sound. You don't have to invest in super expensive equipment to do that. Furthermore, there is a healthy DIY community these days, where you can build your own speakers, cables, amplifiers, etc, with very little effort, and get a lot of enjoyment in the process and with the product. I built a set of LX521.4 and LX Mini speakers from Siegfried Linkwitz [0] and it changed completely the way I listen to audio now for an order of magnitude less money that what I'd had to pay otherwise... [0] http://linkwitzlab.com/ http://linkwitzlab.com/
    - pbronez 6y ago
      Can you provide some more detail about your experiences with these speakers? I’ve seen the designs before, but they’re so exotic they seem like a gimmick. I want to make two sets of speakers. First, a two channel set up for my home office, to play high-quality music while I work and handle conference call audio. Second, a monitor for my synthesizers. They produce a crazy range of detailed sound, and I want something that reproduces all that detail across a full range, even at lower volumes, and ideally without strict placement/listening position constraints. I dream of building a battery powered custom speaker bank for synth busking / disturbing the peace.
playpause 6y ago
I don’t mind if it uses volume steps under the hood, as long as it uses ~100 steps, not 10.
atoav 6y ago
There are even more solutions to this problem: One is to convert the L/R Stereo image to Mid/Side do the volume control and then convert it back to L/R. This way any mismatch of the potentiometer would translate into a change in stereo width instead of shifting the image around. Another solution would be to use one pot as a voltage divider, buffer that voltage and use the resulting current to drive two Blackmer VCA ICs (e.g. THAT2181).
tuatoru 6y ago
Adding to formerly_proven's reply, back in the analog era we usually had balance and tone controls to compensate for the deficiences in both the recordings and our listening environments and equipment. Balance and tone controls are still useful. You can treat your listening environments to be neutral (bass traps, absorbers and diffusers, etc); but when you have a few friends over to listen you need to compensate for the sound absorption by their bodies. Or if it's a nice day and you open the window. Or you have a recording made by a friend on their phone. All sorts of reasons.

formerly_proven 6y ago

That's a problem mostly caused by using passive log-taper circuits, instead of alternate active volume control circuits that use linear-taper pots, which have sufficiently good tolerance and ganging in low-cost dual units. But these circuits require 1-2 op amps per channel and those 20 cents are too much in three-figure hardware. Ganged log-taper pots have something like +-3 or +-6 dB ganging mismatch even for relatively high-end (10-15 € ea) units.

qppo 6y ago
I've seen/heard this in $100 units from Schiit. Not to mention the poor hand soldering job that cost more money because a human did it in America.
- SSLy 6y ago
  You get what it says on the packaging
- cthalupa 6y ago
  Send 'em an email. Their $100 units are some of the best testing amps/dacs in the price range, so even from a purely subjectivist standpoint they make stuff that generally works pretty well. If you're encountering issues, then they will usually make good on it. The stereo imbalance is just something you're gonna see at basically every amp at that price point.
  - aleph_naught 6y ago
    I got the Modi2/Magni2 set for my HD650s when they originally came out. Total disappointment: pots had static when inc/dec vol, and had balancing issues. The headphone amp on my macbook didn’t suffer from any of that, was indistinguishable in sound quality with a blind test, and was way less hassle. Only difference was that it didn’t get as loud, but since I don’t listen past the macbooks max, I put them in the closet and never looked back.
    - cthalupa 6y ago
      That's unfortunate. I use planar headphones, so a dedicated amp is pretty much a requirement due to the power draw vs. regular dyamics. I opted for a Schiit Bifrost/Asgard stack (they didn't have the magni/modi combo at the time) and had great experiences with them. I opted to perform one of the upgrades for the Bifrost myself, and after that had some issues with the DAC resetting and audio cutting out - emailed Schiit, told them what I had done to troubleshoot, and they shipped me a replacement upgrade part the next day.
microcolonel 6y ago
You can also just use an ADC in the sound chipset, since your average consumer electronics Class D amplifier is going to be adequate at any digital level, provided the circuit is not designed by a lower primate.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  I feel personally attacked

liability 6y ago

Things like this make me glad I'm not an audiophile. What you describe seems very annoying, but thankfully I've never noticed anything like it.

Judgmentality 6y ago
I don't think there's much benefit to being an audiophile, unless you're so rich you can actually enjoy your insanely expensive setup in your sound-proofed room with your specially-purchased lossless audio sources. Luckily, very few people who claim to be audiophiles can actually hear the difference in a blind test. https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/...
- Natales 6y ago
  Don't judge all of us audiophiles with a blanket statement. Yes, measured hearing capacity is definitely a key metric to know (why invest in super tweeters when you can't hear past 18KHz for example), but room acoustics is probably the very next thing I'd look at. I've seen so much "expensive" gear in rooms that are absolutely horrid in terms of sound reflections. Just a carpet, curtains or a couple of cheap sound panels can make wonders in improving sound if you know just a bit of the physics of sound. You don't have to invest in super expensive equipment to do that. Furthermore, there is a healthy DIY community these days, where you can build your own speakers, cables, amplifiers, etc, with very little effort, and get a lot of enjoyment in the process and with the product. I built a set of LX521.4 and LX Mini speakers from Siegfried Linkwitz [0] and it changed completely the way I listen to audio now for an order of magnitude less money that what I'd had to pay otherwise... [0] http://linkwitzlab.com/ http://linkwitzlab.com/
  - pbronez 6y ago
    Can you provide some more detail about your experiences with these speakers? I’ve seen the designs before, but they’re so exotic they seem like a gimmick. I want to make two sets of speakers. First, a two channel set up for my home office, to play high-quality music while I work and handle conference call audio. Second, a monitor for my synthesizers. They produce a crazy range of detailed sound, and I want something that reproduces all that detail across a full range, even at lower volumes, and ideally without strict placement/listening position constraints. I dream of building a battery powered custom speaker bank for synth busking / disturbing the peace.

playpause 6y ago

I don’t mind if it uses volume steps under the hood, as long as it uses ~100 steps, not 10.

atoav 6y ago

There are even more solutions to this problem: One is to convert the L/R Stereo image to Mid/Side do the volume control and then convert it back to L/R. This way any mismatch of the potentiometer would translate into a change in stereo width instead of shifting the image around. Another solution would be to use one pot as a voltage divider, buffer that voltage and use the resulting current to drive two Blackmer VCA ICs (e.g. THAT2181).

tuatoru 6y ago

Adding to formerly_proven's reply, back in the analog era we usually had balance and tone controls to compensate for the deficiences in both the recordings and our listening environments and equipment. Balance and tone controls are still useful. You can treat your listening environments to be neutral (bass traps, absorbers and diffusers, etc); but when you have a few friends over to listen you need to compensate for the sound absorption by their bodies. Or if it's a nice day and you open the window. Or you have a recording made by a friend on their phone. All sorts of reasons.