7 ms·

HSBC moved Ponzi scheme millions despite warning

132 points by asplake 6y ago

asplake 6y ago
More from the same source: FinCEN Files: Sanctioned Putin associate ‘laundered millions’ through Barclays https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54225577 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54225577
- lowdose 6y ago
  Putin also used Deutsche Bank to laundry $20bn. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-bank-faces-action-over-20bn-russian-money-laundering-scheme https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-ba...
  - 7373737373 6y ago
    I really wonder what role money plays at this level of magnitude, abstraction and politics. Why does money still seem so important to groups of people who already effectively control an entire country? What is it used for? What does money even mean for a billionaire? For them this doesn't seem to have its usual nature as the stuff one earns directly with labor and pays food and rent with. Going along with the millenia old abstraction of kingdoms, do they perceive their organizations as 'part of their body', like the rulers who claimed sovereignty over land and populace, incorporating it?
    - rwmj 6y ago
      I guess for full-blown clientelism[1] across an entire country you need very large sums of money to keep paying everyone off. Putin will be very aware that his own life is likely in danger if the music stops. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clientelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clientelism
      - 7373737373 6y ago
        Would it not make more sense to handle this via the central bank? To just take control over the national financial and monetary system? Or do other currencies become even more valuable if this type of collusion takes place? I guess the relatively free trade and money flows make full control impossible. Edit: I suppose if you want to import (luxury) goods you need foreign currency...
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        > Would it not make more sense to handle this via the central bank? Not if you want to survive post-coup exile in luxury.
    - tdeck 6y ago
      What is it used for? What does money even mean for a billionaire? It's power. The more money you have, the more people will want to be in your good graces, even if you're not paying them to be. It's a bunch of potential energy that can be converted into action whenever the holder wishes.
      - 7373737373 6y ago
        'Richard Dawkins said in an offhand comment in The Selfish Gene that “Money is a formal token of delayed reciprocal altruism.”' (from: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/reciprocal-altruism-in-the-the https://nakamotoinstitute.org/reciprocal-altruism-in-the-the...)
rwmj 6y ago
It was fined $1.9 billion in Dec 2012[1]: "HSBC admitted having poor money laundering controls and apologised. "We accept responsibility for our past mistakes," said HSBC group chief executive Stuart Gulliver in a statement. "We have said we are profoundly sorry for them, and we do so again." The bank said it had spent $290m on improving its systems to prevent money laundering and clawed back some bonuses paid to senior executives in the past. Then in 2013 and 2014 it started money laundering again. My guess is this time HSBC will lose their banking license, so if you hold any shares in them could be a good time to get out. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20673466 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20673466
- DevX101 6y ago
  > My guess is this time HSBC will lose their banking license I'll take the other side of that bet.
  - adamm255 6y ago
    Can I get some of that action? HSBC is the definition of “too big to fail”. It’s the most interconnected on the planet.
    - rwmj 6y ago
      I think you'd be a fool to do it, but taking the other side of this bet merely involves buying HSBC shares. They're down about 10% at the moment so if you think they'll get through this you can get them at a small discount.
- captainbland 6y ago
  I seriously doubt they would lose their banking license. They're easily in the "too big to fail" category.
- bashinator 6y ago
  Specifically, HSBC was laundering money for drug cartels. IMO this made them complicit in mass murder.
macintux 6y ago
There are now at least 3 stories on the front page covering the same documents. Most active discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24535241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24535241

132 points by asplake 6y ago

More from the same source: FinCEN Files: Sanctioned Putin associate ‘laundered millions’ through Barclays https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54225577 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54225577

lowdose 6y ago
Putin also used Deutsche Bank to laundry $20bn. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-bank-faces-action-over-20bn-russian-money-laundering-scheme https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-ba...
- 7373737373 6y ago
  I really wonder what role money plays at this level of magnitude, abstraction and politics. Why does money still seem so important to groups of people who already effectively control an entire country? What is it used for? What does money even mean for a billionaire? For them this doesn't seem to have its usual nature as the stuff one earns directly with labor and pays food and rent with. Going along with the millenia old abstraction of kingdoms, do they perceive their organizations as 'part of their body', like the rulers who claimed sovereignty over land and populace, incorporating it?
  - rwmj 6y ago
    I guess for full-blown clientelism[1] across an entire country you need very large sums of money to keep paying everyone off. Putin will be very aware that his own life is likely in danger if the music stops. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clientelism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clientelism
    - 7373737373 6y ago
      Would it not make more sense to handle this via the central bank? To just take control over the national financial and monetary system? Or do other currencies become even more valuable if this type of collusion takes place? I guess the relatively free trade and money flows make full control impossible. Edit: I suppose if you want to import (luxury) goods you need foreign currency...
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        > Would it not make more sense to handle this via the central bank? Not if you want to survive post-coup exile in luxury.
  - tdeck 6y ago
    What is it used for? What does money even mean for a billionaire? It's power. The more money you have, the more people will want to be in your good graces, even if you're not paying them to be. It's a bunch of potential energy that can be converted into action whenever the holder wishes.
    - 7373737373 6y ago
      'Richard Dawkins said in an offhand comment in The Selfish Gene that “Money is a formal token of delayed reciprocal altruism.”' (from: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/reciprocal-altruism-in-the-the https://nakamotoinstitute.org/reciprocal-altruism-in-the-the...)

rwmj 6y ago

It was fined $1.9 billion in Dec 2012[1]: "HSBC admitted having poor money laundering controls and apologised. "We accept responsibility for our past mistakes," said HSBC group chief executive Stuart Gulliver in a statement. "We have said we are profoundly sorry for them, and we do so again." The bank said it had spent $290m on improving its systems to prevent money laundering and clawed back some bonuses paid to senior executives in the past. Then in 2013 and 2014 it started money laundering again. My guess is this time HSBC will lose their banking license, so if you hold any shares in them could be a good time to get out. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20673466 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20673466

DevX101 6y ago
> My guess is this time HSBC will lose their banking license I'll take the other side of that bet.
- adamm255 6y ago
  Can I get some of that action? HSBC is the definition of “too big to fail”. It’s the most interconnected on the planet.
  - rwmj 6y ago
    I think you'd be a fool to do it, but taking the other side of this bet merely involves buying HSBC shares. They're down about 10% at the moment so if you think they'll get through this you can get them at a small discount.
captainbland 6y ago
I seriously doubt they would lose their banking license. They're easily in the "too big to fail" category.
bashinator 6y ago
Specifically, HSBC was laundering money for drug cartels. IMO this made them complicit in mass murder.

macintux 6y ago

There are now at least 3 stories on the front page covering the same documents. Most active discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24535241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24535241