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I am not offended and you have been polite, so please don't remove your posts. Renting vs buying is fine. We can choose to rent all our lives and frankly in th

I am not offended and you have been polite, so please don't remove your posts. Renting vs buying is fine. We can choose to rent all our lives and frankly in the Bay Area buying isn't even that slam dunk of a decision anyway. My point was a bit more general. It's very common for people to argue 'technically' about how others should live their lives while missing their ground reality. For instance, it's easy to say "Well technically H1B is not an immigration visa, it's a temporary workers visa so why are you making long-term life decisions while on it". But the ground reality for most Indians and Chinese on H1Bs in the US is that they will never get a green card (permanent residence), and they will spend their whole lives here under H1B, so while the question is well-meaning and genuine, it translates to "don't buy a house, don't get too many possessions, don't marry[1], don't have kids". [1] Unless you marry a citizen, in which case you are sometimes accused of entering into a 'green-card marriage' and seen with suspicion.

User23 6y ago
As a guest worker you are not supposed to put down deep roots here. If you want to immigrate you should follow the law and get an immigrant visa. This isn't hard at all. It's just like being a guest anywhere else, you have to follow the host's rules even if you don't like them.
- jen20 6y ago
  One need not have visited the US, or even _be eligible_ to visit the US to own property in the US.
- ylem 6y ago
  Immigrant visa? What is that? I think the conversation is focused on the US. I'm a native-born US citizen, but my impression is that for those who get an H1B, they can apply for a green card and eventually citizenship. However, the path for many is fairly long. Perhaps you are confusing the H1-b and the J-1?
  - User23 6y ago
    You can read about the difference here[1]. H-1B is a temporary visa and does not entitle a holder to permanent residency. In some cases it's possible for a H-1B holder to be granted permanent residency because it's a dual intent visa, but that merely permits the holder to desire to immigrate. By contrast a tourist visa would be denied to a visitor who expressed the desire to stay permanently. [1] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/requirements-immigrant-and-nonimmigrant-visas https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waive...
- mavelikara 6y ago
  Many people who are in the guest visa apply for and are approved for permanent residency (which is what, I think, you meant by “immigrant visa”). They are simply waiting for years - decades even - for their turn. Life happens while they wait - marriage, kids, house etc - as mentioned by GP.
  - User23 6y ago
    The term immigrant visa is well defined[1]. If you want to bring your wife and have kids and buy a house you should get an E series visa[2], not an H one. If you choose to go with the H-1B anyhow you are taking your chances and like any chance sometime it doesn't go your way and you have to deal with the consequences. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_States#List_of_US_visa_types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Stat... [2] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/employment-based-immigrant-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- fishywang 6y ago
  What immigrant visa, exactly? H1b is the pathway to immigrant visa for tech workers in the US. For H1b holders born in certain countries, they have to be on H1b visa to be on the 5-10 year long queue to get the green card.
  - User23 6y ago
    The appropriate E visa[1]. [1] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/employment-based-immigrant-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...
    - fishywang 6y ago
      That's the exactly same thing I said: you need to be on H1b (or other non-immigrant visa but allows dual-intention, for example L1) and wait for maybe years or decades (based on your birth country) to get that. Here's the current queue size: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2020/visa-bulletin-for-september-2020.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v.... For immigrants born in mainland China, E2's current queue is 4.5 years, for immigrants born in India E2's current queue is 11 years.
      - User23 6y ago
        There is no mention of H-1B at all on the State Department page I linked you. Where are you getting this from? Sure some H-1B holders manage to later acquire an E visa, but nowhere is it stated to be a prerequisite. Exceptional individuals don't even need a US sponsor to apply.
        fishywang 6y ago
        Sure H1b is not a prerequisite technically. But say you are the employer, you want to sponsor this Indian person's E2 visa, but you need to wait for 11 years before they actually get the visa you sponsored and start to work for you. Now tell me how is H1b not a prerequisite in reality?
mathattack 6y ago
On marriage - it’s very broken, and abuses foreign workers. And I do get where you’re coming from. My wedding got accelerated by a year or two when my girlfriend has visa issues. (It was still worth it!)
rjkennedy98 6y ago
What do Americans owe you? If its such a bad arrangement, why did you come to the US? > it translates to "don't buy a house, don't get too many possessions, don't marry[1], don't have kids". What percentages of Americans own a house. What percentage of Americans have kids? What percentage of Americans get married? You have some seriously entitlement derangement syndrome.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  If you insist on inserting trollbait in a polite and calm discussion, well might I suggest that Americans, at the very least, owe us Thanks for the billions of dollars in taxes Indian Americans pay as the wealthiest ethnic group in the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- dang 6y ago
  If you continue to post flamewar comments to HN we are going to have to ban you. You've been doing it a lot, unfortunately, and we've already asked you more than once to stop. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
cableshaft 6y ago
Yeah, my boss is here on an H1B, and has been with the same company for I think 12 years now, even though the company has had many rough years and I'm sure he would have switched jobs already if not for his H1B status. He's since married and has a kid, used to live in an apartment but now has a house, although he might be renting, I'm not sure. I started dating and eventually married my wife, got two dogs, and bought a house in just the five years I've been working at the company myself, so a lot of life events can happen in that time.
mathattack 6y ago
Thanks for engaging politely and directly in a tough conversation.

User23 6y ago

As a guest worker you are not supposed to put down deep roots here. If you want to immigrate you should follow the law and get an immigrant visa. This isn't hard at all. It's just like being a guest anywhere else, you have to follow the host's rules even if you don't like them.

jen20 6y ago
One need not have visited the US, or even _be eligible_ to visit the US to own property in the US.
ylem 6y ago
Immigrant visa? What is that? I think the conversation is focused on the US. I'm a native-born US citizen, but my impression is that for those who get an H1B, they can apply for a green card and eventually citizenship. However, the path for many is fairly long. Perhaps you are confusing the H1-b and the J-1?
- User23 6y ago
  You can read about the difference here[1]. H-1B is a temporary visa and does not entitle a holder to permanent residency. In some cases it's possible for a H-1B holder to be granted permanent residency because it's a dual intent visa, but that merely permits the holder to desire to immigrate. By contrast a tourist visa would be denied to a visitor who expressed the desire to stay permanently. [1] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/requirements-immigrant-and-nonimmigrant-visas https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waive...
mavelikara 6y ago
Many people who are in the guest visa apply for and are approved for permanent residency (which is what, I think, you meant by “immigrant visa”). They are simply waiting for years - decades even - for their turn. Life happens while they wait - marriage, kids, house etc - as mentioned by GP.
- User23 6y ago
  The term immigrant visa is well defined[1]. If you want to bring your wife and have kids and buy a house you should get an E series visa[2], not an H one. If you choose to go with the H-1B anyhow you are taking your chances and like any chance sometime it doesn't go your way and you have to deal with the consequences. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_States#List_of_US_visa_types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Stat... [2] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/employment-based-immigrant-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
fishywang 6y ago
What immigrant visa, exactly? H1b is the pathway to immigrant visa for tech workers in the US. For H1b holders born in certain countries, they have to be on H1b visa to be on the 5-10 year long queue to get the green card.
- User23 6y ago
  The appropriate E visa[1]. [1] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/employment-based-immigrant-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...
  - fishywang 6y ago
    That's the exactly same thing I said: you need to be on H1b (or other non-immigrant visa but allows dual-intention, for example L1) and wait for maybe years or decades (based on your birth country) to get that. Here's the current queue size: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/visa-bulletin/2020/visa-bulletin-for-september-2020.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v.... For immigrants born in mainland China, E2's current queue is 4.5 years, for immigrants born in India E2's current queue is 11 years.
    - User23 6y ago
      There is no mention of H-1B at all on the State Department page I linked you. Where are you getting this from? Sure some H-1B holders manage to later acquire an E visa, but nowhere is it stated to be a prerequisite. Exceptional individuals don't even need a US sponsor to apply.
      - fishywang 6y ago
        Sure H1b is not a prerequisite technically. But say you are the employer, you want to sponsor this Indian person's E2 visa, but you need to wait for 11 years before they actually get the visa you sponsored and start to work for you. Now tell me how is H1b not a prerequisite in reality?

mathattack 6y ago

On marriage - it’s very broken, and abuses foreign workers. And I do get where you’re coming from. My wedding got accelerated by a year or two when my girlfriend has visa issues. (It was still worth it!)

rjkennedy98 6y ago

What do Americans owe you? If its such a bad arrangement, why did you come to the US? > it translates to "don't buy a house, don't get too many possessions, don't marry[1], don't have kids". What percentages of Americans own a house. What percentage of Americans have kids? What percentage of Americans get married? You have some seriously entitlement derangement syndrome.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
If you insist on inserting trollbait in a polite and calm discussion, well might I suggest that Americans, at the very least, owe us Thanks for the billions of dollars in taxes Indian Americans pay as the wealthiest ethnic group in the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dang 6y ago
If you continue to post flamewar comments to HN we are going to have to ban you. You've been doing it a lot, unfortunately, and we've already asked you more than once to stop. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

cableshaft 6y ago

Yeah, my boss is here on an H1B, and has been with the same company for I think 12 years now, even though the company has had many rough years and I'm sure he would have switched jobs already if not for his H1B status. He's since married and has a kid, used to live in an apartment but now has a house, although he might be renting, I'm not sure. I started dating and eventually married my wife, got two dogs, and bought a house in just the five years I've been working at the company myself, so a lot of life events can happen in that time.

mathattack 6y ago

Thanks for engaging politely and directly in a tough conversation.