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I fully support immigration reform and expedited citizenship for skilled workers. I empathize with you. I have a lot of friends from school who have to deal wit

I fully support immigration reform and expedited citizenship for skilled workers. I empathize with you. I have a lot of friends from school who have to deal with this, and it sucks. On the other hand, the H1B system isn’t supposed to import fungible labor. These visa are supposed to be for highly specialized labor — highly specialized to the point that the openings are rare. It’s hard to fault an abused program for being inconsiderate of a problem it wasn’t supposed to solve.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
The nature of the H1B being tied to a single place of employment is ludicrous though. It enables a power dynamic where these workers are basically indentured servants. This dynamic is a detriment to both these workers and their native counterparts. Once an H1B is offered it should remain in place for some set time period, with procedures in place to address fraud either in the case of the company or employee.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  This is the singular easiest change that would make lives for H1B employees easier. Even immigration-averse countries like European ones work this way. Give us a general work visa that let's us work for N years instead of making us puppets of the company we are currently working for.
  - calvinmorrison 6y ago
    Isn't a H1B visa literally for a single job that's not able to be filled? It's not a work permit for working any specialist job, companies need to justify the need specifically
    - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
      Can we stop pretending that's true? Like there are really jobs that are sooooo unique that NO Americans have the skills and only some foreign worker unicorns can fulfill them? H1Bs are just skilled worker visas, let's stop with the charade that they're anything else.
      - bgorman 6y ago
        If you want to stop that charade, you need to admit that H1Bs are frequently abused and are used to depress the salaries of American workers.
        kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
        There is a wide gap between the two extremes of "H1B is merely abuse" and "H1B is only for Nobel prize type savants". Do you know there is no general work visa at all in America, whereby a skilled person can come based on their merit and work in the US?
        pandaman 6y ago
        You are correct that there is no geneneral non-immigrant work visa but there are general skilled immigrant visas (EB1A and EB2-NIW).
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Do you know there is no general work visa at all in America, whereby a skilled person can come based on their merit and work in the US? There are a whole lot of (both immigrant and non-immigrant) work-related skill-based visas in the US immigration system. It's true there is no one generic such visa, but that's because the US immigration systems doesn't use a small number of broad visa types but a large number of hyperspecific ones.
        hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
        > If you want to stop that charade, you need to admit that H1Bs are frequently abused and are used to depress the salaries of American workers. 100% agree, which is why I'm saying they shouldn't be tied to a single employer, which just helps employers in general acquire a more compliant, docile work force.
        foobiekr 6y ago
        I agree with this, but the best way to fix that is to remove some of the restrictions on the H1b workers so that they are not as easy to exploit. I also favor dutch auction allocation. That, and ban all of the body shops using them. BTW, I have worked somewhere where H1b was knowingly abused and used to reduce the average wage.
    - wombatmobile 6y ago
      The point is that if that particular job disappears, the visa holder, a human being, often with family, is put in a difficult circumstance which requires adjustment.
- maest 6y ago
  > This dynamic is a detriment to both these workers and their native counterparts. Yeah, but it's great for the large companies hiring them.
- icedchai 6y ago
  Yes, it disgusts me how some of our fellow engineers are controlled and manipulated due to their visa status. Meanwhile, non-H1B engineers can speak out about anything, and become uncooperative when asked do something perceived as idiotic, immoral, or even possibly illegal. I've seen other folks go ballistic on conference calls and emails due to one ridiculous thing or another. When you basically have a knife hanging over your head... potential deportation, disruption of your life and your family's... it is very different. You can't take those risks.
whack 6y ago
> These visa are supposed to be for highly specialized labor — highly specialized to the point that the openings are rare This is not true. The H1B program is intended to "allow U.S. employers to employ foreign workers in specialty occupations. A specialty occupation requires the application of specialized knowledge and a bachelor's degree or the equivalent of work experience". Ie, it is intended to boost the economy by allowing in skilled college-educated immigrants. There's no requirement that they have to possess unique/extraordinary talent, or work in jobs where "openings are rare". You're probably mixing up the H1B program with the EB1 program, which is indeed intended for immigrants possessing "extraordinary ability". The intent and requirements for H1B are far simpler
damnyou 6y ago
This is simply not true. What you're talking about is the intent of the O-1 and EB-1 programs, not H-1B.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago

The nature of the H1B being tied to a single place of employment is ludicrous though. It enables a power dynamic where these workers are basically indentured servants. This dynamic is a detriment to both these workers and their native counterparts. Once an H1B is offered it should remain in place for some set time period, with procedures in place to address fraud either in the case of the company or employee.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
This is the singular easiest change that would make lives for H1B employees easier. Even immigration-averse countries like European ones work this way. Give us a general work visa that let's us work for N years instead of making us puppets of the company we are currently working for.
- calvinmorrison 6y ago
  Isn't a H1B visa literally for a single job that's not able to be filled? It's not a work permit for working any specialist job, companies need to justify the need specifically
  - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
    Can we stop pretending that's true? Like there are really jobs that are sooooo unique that NO Americans have the skills and only some foreign worker unicorns can fulfill them? H1Bs are just skilled worker visas, let's stop with the charade that they're anything else.
    - bgorman 6y ago
      If you want to stop that charade, you need to admit that H1Bs are frequently abused and are used to depress the salaries of American workers.
      - kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
        There is a wide gap between the two extremes of "H1B is merely abuse" and "H1B is only for Nobel prize type savants". Do you know there is no general work visa at all in America, whereby a skilled person can come based on their merit and work in the US?
        pandaman 6y ago
        You are correct that there is no geneneral non-immigrant work visa but there are general skilled immigrant visas (EB1A and EB2-NIW).
        dragonwriter 6y ago
        > Do you know there is no general work visa at all in America, whereby a skilled person can come based on their merit and work in the US? There are a whole lot of (both immigrant and non-immigrant) work-related skill-based visas in the US immigration system. It's true there is no one generic such visa, but that's because the US immigration systems doesn't use a small number of broad visa types but a large number of hyperspecific ones.
      - hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
        > If you want to stop that charade, you need to admit that H1Bs are frequently abused and are used to depress the salaries of American workers. 100% agree, which is why I'm saying they shouldn't be tied to a single employer, which just helps employers in general acquire a more compliant, docile work force.
      - foobiekr 6y ago
        I agree with this, but the best way to fix that is to remove some of the restrictions on the H1b workers so that they are not as easy to exploit. I also favor dutch auction allocation. That, and ban all of the body shops using them. BTW, I have worked somewhere where H1b was knowingly abused and used to reduce the average wage.
  - wombatmobile 6y ago
    The point is that if that particular job disappears, the visa holder, a human being, often with family, is put in a difficult circumstance which requires adjustment.
maest 6y ago
> This dynamic is a detriment to both these workers and their native counterparts. Yeah, but it's great for the large companies hiring them.
icedchai 6y ago
Yes, it disgusts me how some of our fellow engineers are controlled and manipulated due to their visa status. Meanwhile, non-H1B engineers can speak out about anything, and become uncooperative when asked do something perceived as idiotic, immoral, or even possibly illegal. I've seen other folks go ballistic on conference calls and emails due to one ridiculous thing or another. When you basically have a knife hanging over your head... potential deportation, disruption of your life and your family's... it is very different. You can't take those risks.

whack 6y ago

> These visa are supposed to be for highly specialized labor — highly specialized to the point that the openings are rare This is not true. The H1B program is intended to "allow U.S. employers to employ foreign workers in specialty occupations. A specialty occupation requires the application of specialized knowledge and a bachelor's degree or the equivalent of work experience". Ie, it is intended to boost the economy by allowing in skilled college-educated immigrants. There's no requirement that they have to possess unique/extraordinary talent, or work in jobs where "openings are rare". You're probably mixing up the H1B program with the EB1 program, which is indeed intended for immigrants possessing "extraordinary ability". The intent and requirements for H1B are far simpler

damnyou 6y ago

This is simply not true. What you're talking about is the intent of the O-1 and EB-1 programs, not H-1B.