7 ms·

> Typically it's the Democrats who are pro-immigration, but in reality they don't care much about H1B style immigration and are in fact likely against it due to

> Typically it's the Democrats who are pro-immigration, but in reality they don't care much about H1B style immigration and are in fact likely against it due to American tech unions hating H1Bs, Wait, what? Tech unions? I've never seen a single union in my entire 20 year career. I was sympathetic up until you complained about that. What unions? The H1B stuff goes back and forth politically. If you ask me, if the economy is poor then there's no excuse for encouraging immigration, especially of high paid labor. If unemployment is high, that is (and that's the part that fluctuates). Not to mention H1B is used to reduce wages and dump tech workers when they get old or expensive. However, the uncertainty you describe is intolerable, it should be a clear path and if someone is laying down roots and family, they shouldn't be living in fear. It's obviously a very mixed bag.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
https://ustechworkers.com/ https://ustechworkers.com/ for example. I don't know what makes something 'officially' a labor union but at least they call themselves that. There was also Washington state Tech Workers Union.
- jdxcode 6y ago
  do they hold any significant influence? I've never heard of either one. I lived in WA state too.
- damnyou 6y ago
  That's a front for a network of white nationalist organizations, not an actual union.
- kaitai 6y ago
  Uh, when I go to that page I don't see the word "union" anywhere on it. I tried searching for "union" on it and didn't get anything either. Where's the union part? I am truly confused. How did you get the impression they have anything to do with being a union? I don't see the union part, or the members part, or the collective bargaining part; seems to me a union ought to have those components.
paxys 6y ago
Every one of the numerous studies done in this area over the years has come to the clear conclusion that high-skilled immigration produces a net economic benefit to the country and its workers (here's a recent one - https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-Impact-of-H-1B-Visa-Holders-on-the-U.S.-Workforce.NFAP-Policy-Brief.May-2020.pdf https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-Impact-of-H-...). Silicon Valley itself wouldn't exist had it not been openly attracting talent from all over the world, and the difficulty in getting visas and residency over the last few years is already showing its effects as more and more major software companies are popping up outside the US.
- confidantlake 6y ago
  The study is unconvincing. They mention that fields with more h1bs have lower unemployment. Well no kidding, in demand fields attract more h1bs, it isn't the h1bs making it more attractive. Another problem with the study. "...the program enables employers to hire foreign workers when they cannot hire U.S. workers" This is such a lie. My brother has looking for around a year and cannot get his first position. Past few months, looked like I might lose my job do to Covid. I spent a few months looking for a job, but couldn't find one. At the same time 70% of my coworkers are on h1b, often in their early/mid 20s. Absolutely no reason they couldn't hire a domestic worker to do the job. H1B is a scam.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    > This is such a lie. My brother has looking for around a year and cannot get his first position. Anecdotes are not evidence. Maybe your brother is bad at interviewing. Getting the first position is always the hardest.
  - paxys 6y ago
    You've highlighted the problem with public discourse in the country. "I'm going to choose to ignore all scientific evidence because my brother can't get a job and it feels like H-1B is the cause" - sadly applicable to any policy topic where politicians & media are taking advantage of people's emotions.
minot 6y ago
> The H1B stuff goes back and forth politically. If you ask me, if the economy is poor then there's no excuse for encouraging immigration, especially of high paid labor. If unemployment is high, that is (and that's the part that fluctuates). Exactly why it should be easy, frictionless, and risk-free to tell on your employer for any labor violation as an H1-B. Make it abundantly clear to the visa holder that if their employer wrongs them in any way, they will pay big time and the visa holder will a. not face any punishment b. will be handsomely rewarded for coming forward. This is what the unions should advocate for...
- kazagistar 6y ago
  I wish there were worker unions in tech.
the_arun 6y ago
If economy is down or unemployment is high, is it proprtional to number of umemployment rate in highly skilled workers or other categories? Cause I always understood unemployment numbers include all categories with a majority in low skilled workers. Which means that, it may not be related to H1 visas.
addicted 6y ago
The whole argument that Democrats, who have voted for bills that help resolve H1B issues by vast majorities and Obama passed executive actions that among other things allowed H1B spouses to work, provided a grace period, and until Republicans sued and had it rolled back in court allowed for H1 B green cards to be filled from infilled green cards in other categories, don’t really care is a remarkably wrong statement, and explains why politics in this country are terrible. You literally have 1 side that demonizes a situation, and the other side doing pretty much all the can within the legal powers they have to improve the situation, but “both sides don’t really care”.
- mavelikara 6y ago
  Democrats have worked for _increasing_ the number of _new_ H-1B that are allowed per year, and Republicans have opposed it. Republicans have supported rules which make it more attractive to those H-1Bs who do arrive each year, and Democrats have opposed it. That is my summary of the situation.
- vsskanth 6y ago
  It's not that simple. All those democratic actions for H1B you've described are merely tokens when you consider how much attention they paid to undocumented immigrants (DACA). They've completely neglected the kids of H1B workers who have been here decades but have to leave the country when they turn 21. None of what they've done provides an attainable pathway for permanent residency for legal, tax paying high skilled workers from India. Democratic immigration policies always prioritize family based and undocumented immigration. They have clear electoral benefits from this (see AZ and TX). Reforming H1B and the high skilled immigration system is only an afterthought. Republican policies have at least put forward some kind of points-based system. They however want to reduce family based immigration which is an absolute no-go for Democrats.
  - newhotelowner 6y ago
    The majority of the illegals pay taxes too. DACA kids go to school. They graduate from schools here. They serve in military. They pay taxes when they join the workforce. The majority of Indians/Asians also vote for Democratic candidates. 80+% of Asians voted for Clinton in 2016.

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago

https://ustechworkers.com/ https://ustechworkers.com/ for example. I don't know what makes something 'officially' a labor union but at least they call themselves that. There was also Washington state Tech Workers Union.

jdxcode 6y ago
do they hold any significant influence? I've never heard of either one. I lived in WA state too.
damnyou 6y ago
That's a front for a network of white nationalist organizations, not an actual union.
kaitai 6y ago
Uh, when I go to that page I don't see the word "union" anywhere on it. I tried searching for "union" on it and didn't get anything either. Where's the union part? I am truly confused. How did you get the impression they have anything to do with being a union? I don't see the union part, or the members part, or the collective bargaining part; seems to me a union ought to have those components.

paxys 6y ago

Every one of the numerous studies done in this area over the years has come to the clear conclusion that high-skilled immigration produces a net economic benefit to the country and its workers (here's a recent one - https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-Impact-of-H-1B-Visa-Holders-on-the-U.S.-Workforce.NFAP-Policy-Brief.May-2020.pdf https://nfap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/The-Impact-of-H-...). Silicon Valley itself wouldn't exist had it not been openly attracting talent from all over the world, and the difficulty in getting visas and residency over the last few years is already showing its effects as more and more major software companies are popping up outside the US.

confidantlake 6y ago
The study is unconvincing. They mention that fields with more h1bs have lower unemployment. Well no kidding, in demand fields attract more h1bs, it isn't the h1bs making it more attractive. Another problem with the study. "...the program enables employers to hire foreign workers when they cannot hire U.S. workers" This is such a lie. My brother has looking for around a year and cannot get his first position. Past few months, looked like I might lose my job do to Covid. I spent a few months looking for a job, but couldn't find one. At the same time 70% of my coworkers are on h1b, often in their early/mid 20s. Absolutely no reason they couldn't hire a domestic worker to do the job. H1B is a scam.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > This is such a lie. My brother has looking for around a year and cannot get his first position. Anecdotes are not evidence. Maybe your brother is bad at interviewing. Getting the first position is always the hardest.
- paxys 6y ago
  You've highlighted the problem with public discourse in the country. "I'm going to choose to ignore all scientific evidence because my brother can't get a job and it feels like H-1B is the cause" - sadly applicable to any policy topic where politicians & media are taking advantage of people's emotions.

minot 6y ago

> The H1B stuff goes back and forth politically. If you ask me, if the economy is poor then there's no excuse for encouraging immigration, especially of high paid labor. If unemployment is high, that is (and that's the part that fluctuates). Exactly why it should be easy, frictionless, and risk-free to tell on your employer for any labor violation as an H1-B. Make it abundantly clear to the visa holder that if their employer wrongs them in any way, they will pay big time and the visa holder will a. not face any punishment b. will be handsomely rewarded for coming forward. This is what the unions should advocate for...

kazagistar 6y ago
I wish there were worker unions in tech.

the_arun 6y ago

If economy is down or unemployment is high, is it proprtional to number of umemployment rate in highly skilled workers or other categories? Cause I always understood unemployment numbers include all categories with a majority in low skilled workers. Which means that, it may not be related to H1 visas.

addicted 6y ago

The whole argument that Democrats, who have voted for bills that help resolve H1B issues by vast majorities and Obama passed executive actions that among other things allowed H1B spouses to work, provided a grace period, and until Republicans sued and had it rolled back in court allowed for H1 B green cards to be filled from infilled green cards in other categories, don’t really care is a remarkably wrong statement, and explains why politics in this country are terrible. You literally have 1 side that demonizes a situation, and the other side doing pretty much all the can within the legal powers they have to improve the situation, but “both sides don’t really care”.

mavelikara 6y ago
Democrats have worked for _increasing_ the number of _new_ H-1B that are allowed per year, and Republicans have opposed it. Republicans have supported rules which make it more attractive to those H-1Bs who do arrive each year, and Democrats have opposed it. That is my summary of the situation.
vsskanth 6y ago
It's not that simple. All those democratic actions for H1B you've described are merely tokens when you consider how much attention they paid to undocumented immigrants (DACA). They've completely neglected the kids of H1B workers who have been here decades but have to leave the country when they turn 21. None of what they've done provides an attainable pathway for permanent residency for legal, tax paying high skilled workers from India. Democratic immigration policies always prioritize family based and undocumented immigration. They have clear electoral benefits from this (see AZ and TX). Reforming H1B and the high skilled immigration system is only an afterthought. Republican policies have at least put forward some kind of points-based system. They however want to reduce family based immigration which is an absolute no-go for Democrats.
- newhotelowner 6y ago
  The majority of the illegals pay taxes too. DACA kids go to school. They graduate from schools here. They serve in military. They pay taxes when they join the workforce. The majority of Indians/Asians also vote for Democratic candidates. 80+% of Asians voted for Clinton in 2016.