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People addicted and regularly consuming alcohol, meth (smoked, snorted, or injected), street heroin, and cocaine all suffer from significantly worse side effect

by nip180 6y ago

People addicted and regularly consuming alcohol, meth (smoked, snorted, or injected), street heroin, and cocaine all suffer from significantly worse side effects than people addicted to sugar. I’ll grant you that sugar has a higher total social cost, because more people are addicted to it.

tchaffee 6y ago
Street heroin isn't comparable because that's a complication of it being illegal. You would have to compare sugar to legalized heroin and safe injection sites like they have in Switzerland. In which case you are wrong. Heroin is a very safe drug once you eliminate the possibility of overdose, extremely well tolerated by the body aside from constipation. Which is why opiates are extremely common in hospitals and are used in great quantities all over the world. Diabetes is far more dangerous than legal and medically supervised heroin. So you got that wrong. What else did you get wrong? Alcohol addiction is worse than sugar addiction without a doubt, I can agree with that. Diabetes is a very serious disease. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out a cocaine addiction is safer long term. You would really need to back up your claim with stats instead of just continuing to insist.
- nip180 6y ago
  I used the term “street heroin” instead of heroin because of all the complications that come along with it being illegal. This is a thread about black markets after all. I don’t feel like my claims are controversial at all. Take cocaine. It’s use often leads to psychosis. Snorting cocaine damages the nose significantly. Injecting cocaine is probably the worse drug for the number of punctures a person will do because of the short high and incredible addictive nature of the drug. Cocaine damages the cardiovascular system. It leads to ulcers. It decreases appetite so strongly it often leads to malnutrition. Cocaine increases the risk for seizures and strokes. Cognitive impairment often occurs after long heavy use. This is completely ignoring the social costs of cocaine use, which are significantly higher than being diabetic. The cartels don’t profit from insulin. I’d rather be diabetic than have years of heavy cocaine use behind me. I’ve been close to people with type 2 diabetes and people that went through cocaine addiction.
  - tchaffee 6y ago
    > I used the term “street heroin” instead of heroin because of all the complications that come along with it being illegal. This is a thread about black markets after all. Well yes, and a thread about why recreational drugs should be legalized to reduce harm. But either way we should not be comparing the legal use of one substance to the illegal use of another. It's a mostly useless comparison when it comes to the nature of the substances and mostly useful to talk about the risks of prohibition. As far as your other claims, I already said "You would really need to back up your claim with stats instead of just continuing to insist." Anecdotal evidence about your friends and which addiction you would prefer don't do anything to move the conversation forward, so lacking stats and evidence about your claims, I'll stop here.
lambdaba 6y ago
Just noting that a lot of these addicts have awful diets (even worse than the already bad average). The common extreme tooth decay seen in meth addicts is obviously not caused by the substance itself but by negligence paired with consumption of extreme quantities of... sugar.
- robocat 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth_mouth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth_mouth The hypothesized causes of meth mouth are a combination of MA side effects and lifestyle factors which may be present in users: Dry mouth (xerostomia) Clenching and grinding of the teeth (bruxism) Infrequent oral hygiene Frequent consumption of sugary, fizzy drinks Caustic nature of methamphetamine (less likely: “Meth mouth is generally most severe in users who inject the drug, rather than those who smoke, ingest or inhale it.”)

by nip180 6y ago

tchaffee 6y ago

Street heroin isn't comparable because that's a complication of it being illegal. You would have to compare sugar to legalized heroin and safe injection sites like they have in Switzerland. In which case you are wrong. Heroin is a very safe drug once you eliminate the possibility of overdose, extremely well tolerated by the body aside from constipation. Which is why opiates are extremely common in hospitals and are used in great quantities all over the world. Diabetes is far more dangerous than legal and medically supervised heroin. So you got that wrong. What else did you get wrong? Alcohol addiction is worse than sugar addiction without a doubt, I can agree with that. Diabetes is a very serious disease. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out a cocaine addiction is safer long term. You would really need to back up your claim with stats instead of just continuing to insist.

nip180 6y ago
I used the term “street heroin” instead of heroin because of all the complications that come along with it being illegal. This is a thread about black markets after all. I don’t feel like my claims are controversial at all. Take cocaine. It’s use often leads to psychosis. Snorting cocaine damages the nose significantly. Injecting cocaine is probably the worse drug for the number of punctures a person will do because of the short high and incredible addictive nature of the drug. Cocaine damages the cardiovascular system. It leads to ulcers. It decreases appetite so strongly it often leads to malnutrition. Cocaine increases the risk for seizures and strokes. Cognitive impairment often occurs after long heavy use. This is completely ignoring the social costs of cocaine use, which are significantly higher than being diabetic. The cartels don’t profit from insulin. I’d rather be diabetic than have years of heavy cocaine use behind me. I’ve been close to people with type 2 diabetes and people that went through cocaine addiction.
- tchaffee 6y ago
  > I used the term “street heroin” instead of heroin because of all the complications that come along with it being illegal. This is a thread about black markets after all. Well yes, and a thread about why recreational drugs should be legalized to reduce harm. But either way we should not be comparing the legal use of one substance to the illegal use of another. It's a mostly useless comparison when it comes to the nature of the substances and mostly useful to talk about the risks of prohibition. As far as your other claims, I already said "You would really need to back up your claim with stats instead of just continuing to insist." Anecdotal evidence about your friends and which addiction you would prefer don't do anything to move the conversation forward, so lacking stats and evidence about your claims, I'll stop here.

lambdaba 6y ago

Just noting that a lot of these addicts have awful diets (even worse than the already bad average). The common extreme tooth decay seen in meth addicts is obviously not caused by the substance itself but by negligence paired with consumption of extreme quantities of... sugar.

robocat 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth_mouth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth_mouth The hypothesized causes of meth mouth are a combination of MA side effects and lifestyle factors which may be present in users: Dry mouth (xerostomia) Clenching and grinding of the teeth (bruxism) Infrequent oral hygiene Frequent consumption of sugary, fizzy drinks Caustic nature of methamphetamine (less likely: “Meth mouth is generally most severe in users who inject the drug, rather than those who smoke, ingest or inhale it.”)