3 ms·

I don't think the concern is whether an operation is called "and" or "&". They are both symbols with unambiguous semantics in the language. Dijkstra is ranting

by goto11 6y ago

I don't think the concern is whether an operation is called "and" or "&". They are both symbols with unambiguous semantics in the language. Dijkstra is ranting against the idea of programming using natural languages, with all the redundancies and ambiguities this entails. Perl was actually designed to be closer to the nature of natural languages (despite its reputation as "executable line noise"), and Python was in many ways a reaction against this, by a having less ambiguities and implicit context. "Explicit is better than implicit". I think Perl and AppleScript were valuable experiments in having programming languages closer to natural language. And what we learnt from the experiment was that we absolutely does not want that.

DonHopkins 6y ago
Dijkstra considered you harmful! ;)
xtiansimon 6y ago
<shudder> AppleScript was my first self-guided investigation into programming, and I gave up. Followed by scripting for web with PHP & JavaScript (which is its own mess). Only with Python was I able to pick up the practice, and then only because my worked moved into accounting—programming language and objectives are closely aligned.
- hyperdimension 6y ago
  On the subject of syntax... </shudder> ;)
  - pc86 6y ago
    Probably should have been <shudder />
- klyrs 6y ago
  I've heard far too many cs profs/TAs proclaim that "you get it or you don't" -- that either students come in with some innate ability to program, or they're a lost cause whose role in life is to bring down the cost of education for those worthy of it. Y'know, curmudgeons like Dijkstra. My response to this is generally that one can teach, or they can't, and that blaming the student is intellectual laziness. Also that they probably got their job on research talent and not teaching ability. I was the same way with math. Stank at it 'til the context was right.

by goto11 6y ago

DonHopkins 6y ago

Dijkstra considered you harmful! ;)

xtiansimon 6y ago

<shudder> AppleScript was my first self-guided investigation into programming, and I gave up. Followed by scripting for web with PHP & JavaScript (which is its own mess). Only with Python was I able to pick up the practice, and then only because my worked moved into accounting—programming language and objectives are closely aligned.

hyperdimension 6y ago
On the subject of syntax... </shudder> ;)
- pc86 6y ago
  Probably should have been <shudder />
klyrs 6y ago
I've heard far too many cs profs/TAs proclaim that "you get it or you don't" -- that either students come in with some innate ability to program, or they're a lost cause whose role in life is to bring down the cost of education for those worthy of it. Y'know, curmudgeons like Dijkstra. My response to this is generally that one can teach, or they can't, and that blaming the student is intellectual laziness. Also that they probably got their job on research talent and not teaching ability. I was the same way with math. Stank at it 'til the context was right.