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I recently bought a couple of Netgear Managed Switches (for Business)⁰ and in their datasheet they list "Local-only management" as a feature. Only after they ar

by shock 6y ago

I recently bought a couple of Netgear Managed Switches (for Business)⁰ and in their datasheet they list "Local-only management" as a feature. Only after they arrived we discovered that you only get limited functionality in the Local-only management mode, you have to register the switches to your Netgear Cloud account to get access to the full functionality. Reading up on it, this was achieved only after a community outcry because in the prior firmware versions the switch would have to connect to the Netgear Cloud on every bootup. Needless to say I would not have bought the swiches if I had knew I needed to register them to Netgear Cloud to have access to the full functionality specified in the data sheet. If I had bought them as a consumer, not as a business, I would have returned them immediately. Netgear are now on our purchasing blacklist. ⓪ - the switches are Netgear GS-108Tv3

jchw 6y ago
I ran into a similar issue with a Linksys consumer router. Needless to say, that was back in the box and to the retailer in a new york minute. I ended up going with Ubiquiti equipment for now, since it was available locally. Much more expensive and complicated but Linksys convinced me it was worth any cost to get the hell away from them. But I will definitely be looking into the Turris Omnia, pfSense devices, and maybe even reusing my current Ubiquiti AP with OpenWRT, next time I need to muck with networking.
- ksec 6y ago
  Which is why I really really want Apple to come back to the Router Market. I miss my Airport Extreme.
  - dunham 6y ago
    I’ve still got mine. I should replace it with something newer, but I’m not sure what, if anything, is safe and secure.
    - ksec 6y ago
      That was how I replaced mine, I wanted something new to play around with. Turns out it wasn't much fun...... For now I will wait for WiFi 6E from Ubnt.
- Hydraulix989 6y ago
  Doesn't Ubiquiti require online registration, too? It was the first thing I had to do to set up my Unifi AP.
  - dkdk8283 6y ago
    Ubiquiti does not require registration by default but it does collect and uploads data by default. This is configuring the AP via CloudKey. Don’t know about other methods.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - jchw 6y ago
    I set up my own controller. No such issue.
- Silhouette 6y ago
  I ended up going with Ubiquiti equipment for now, since it was available locally. Sadly, even Ubiquiti gear has recently been criticised for doing the built-in phone home thing.
  - tiernano 6y ago
    It can be tuned off, iirc...
    - Silhouette 6y ago
      I'm a bit out of the loop on Ubiquiti, but IIRC they pushed out an update where telemetry was not optional, and then after the backlash they may have pushed out another one with slightly more configurability. If you buy professional gear from an organisation that would think that was acceptable in the first place, you might want to re-evaluate your preferred suppliers anyway.
nicolaslem 6y ago
I was looking for small business switches recently and I noticed the trend across all brands to push hard for cloud management (aka your device is a brick when we get tired of supporting our cloud platform). I ended up with a local-only tp-link JetStream.
- Silhouette 6y ago
  Well, the industry has been wondering for a while whether white box hardware and SDN will be the way of the future. So far, even at higher prices, the traditional model of having a reseller as point of contact and your gear made by well-known brands with big support contracts has held up quite well. This has been, at least in part, due to less than perfect software for the SDN aspect. I wonder whether this increasing trend to lock everything to the cloud services when it's clearly not necessary for the core function of the product will be a catalyst for more networks -- particularly smaller ones that don't have huge enterprise support contracts in place anyway -- to consider the alternatives again.
ThomasMidgley 6y ago
We buy the same type of switches (and some larger/faster ones) from Netgear since a few years. The problem is: The old version (v2) is locally managed only, whereas the new version (v3) is with cloud management: https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS108Tv2.aspx#tab-techspecs https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS1... https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS108Tv3.aspx#tab-techspecs https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS1... Maybe you looked into the datasheet of the old v2? And then got delivered the new v3? We stumbled over the same problem a few month ago, after buying a bunch of these in the new version. I thought: Newer is better... But apparently not so with Netgear products. :-( Very confusing, what Netgear does with their product naming!
- shock 6y ago
  > Maybe you looked into the datasheet of the old v2? And then got delivered the new v3? We did not. We specifically chose the v3 version for its lower latency in switching packets and other features unrelated to cloud management.
jimbob45 6y ago
As someone who buys a router/switch/dongle once a decade and doesn’t follow the networking meta, who do you buy from?
- shock 6y ago
  Tp-link and Microtik.
- msh 6y ago
  Ubiquity and mikrotik for the personal / smb stuff.
  - shifto 6y ago
    I love Mikrotik/RouterBOARD gear but I would not recommend it to someone who hardly uses any networking equipment. The interface is far from straightforward and new users mostly get overwhelmed by the functionality they offer.
Zenst 6y ago
One plus-side for them logging into Netgears cloud when they boot up - IF they get stolen. In that instance, would Netgear be able to assist in there recovery and law enforcement? Certainly would add to the old saying "every cloud has a silver lining".
- nikanj 6y ago
  This is assuming Netgear cares
- toyg 6y ago
  Does anyone really steal routers and switches...? They are basically cheap as dirt or even hidden away in walls, and there is typically much better gear available during a break-in.
fxtentacle 6y ago
Am I the only one who feels like this is a huge industry espionage risk? Especially if the cloud is in China?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
encom 6y ago
>If I had bought them as a consumer, not as a business, I would have returned them immediately. Why would you not send them back as a business?
- shock 6y ago
  Consumer protection laws do not apply to businesses.

by shock 6y ago

jchw 6y ago

I ran into a similar issue with a Linksys consumer router. Needless to say, that was back in the box and to the retailer in a new york minute. I ended up going with Ubiquiti equipment for now, since it was available locally. Much more expensive and complicated but Linksys convinced me it was worth any cost to get the hell away from them. But I will definitely be looking into the Turris Omnia, pfSense devices, and maybe even reusing my current Ubiquiti AP with OpenWRT, next time I need to muck with networking.

ksec 6y ago
Which is why I really really want Apple to come back to the Router Market. I miss my Airport Extreme.
- dunham 6y ago
  I’ve still got mine. I should replace it with something newer, but I’m not sure what, if anything, is safe and secure.
  - ksec 6y ago
    That was how I replaced mine, I wanted something new to play around with. Turns out it wasn't much fun...... For now I will wait for WiFi 6E from Ubnt.
Hydraulix989 6y ago
Doesn't Ubiquiti require online registration, too? It was the first thing I had to do to set up my Unifi AP.
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  Ubiquiti does not require registration by default but it does collect and uploads data by default. This is configuring the AP via CloudKey. Don’t know about other methods.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- jchw 6y ago
  I set up my own controller. No such issue.
Silhouette 6y ago
I ended up going with Ubiquiti equipment for now, since it was available locally. Sadly, even Ubiquiti gear has recently been criticised for doing the built-in phone home thing.
- tiernano 6y ago
  It can be tuned off, iirc...
  - Silhouette 6y ago
    I'm a bit out of the loop on Ubiquiti, but IIRC they pushed out an update where telemetry was not optional, and then after the backlash they may have pushed out another one with slightly more configurability. If you buy professional gear from an organisation that would think that was acceptable in the first place, you might want to re-evaluate your preferred suppliers anyway.

nicolaslem 6y ago

I was looking for small business switches recently and I noticed the trend across all brands to push hard for cloud management (aka your device is a brick when we get tired of supporting our cloud platform). I ended up with a local-only tp-link JetStream.

Silhouette 6y ago
Well, the industry has been wondering for a while whether white box hardware and SDN will be the way of the future. So far, even at higher prices, the traditional model of having a reseller as point of contact and your gear made by well-known brands with big support contracts has held up quite well. This has been, at least in part, due to less than perfect software for the SDN aspect. I wonder whether this increasing trend to lock everything to the cloud services when it's clearly not necessary for the core function of the product will be a catalyst for more networks -- particularly smaller ones that don't have huge enterprise support contracts in place anyway -- to consider the alternatives again.

ThomasMidgley 6y ago

We buy the same type of switches (and some larger/faster ones) from Netgear since a few years. The problem is: The old version (v2) is locally managed only, whereas the new version (v3) is with cloud management: https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS108Tv2.aspx#tab-techspecs https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS1... https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS108Tv3.aspx#tab-techspecs https://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart/GS1... Maybe you looked into the datasheet of the old v2? And then got delivered the new v3? We stumbled over the same problem a few month ago, after buying a bunch of these in the new version. I thought: Newer is better... But apparently not so with Netgear products. :-( Very confusing, what Netgear does with their product naming!

shock 6y ago
> Maybe you looked into the datasheet of the old v2? And then got delivered the new v3? We did not. We specifically chose the v3 version for its lower latency in switching packets and other features unrelated to cloud management.

jimbob45 6y ago

As someone who buys a router/switch/dongle once a decade and doesn’t follow the networking meta, who do you buy from?

shock 6y ago
Tp-link and Microtik.
msh 6y ago
Ubiquity and mikrotik for the personal / smb stuff.
- shifto 6y ago
  I love Mikrotik/RouterBOARD gear but I would not recommend it to someone who hardly uses any networking equipment. The interface is far from straightforward and new users mostly get overwhelmed by the functionality they offer.

Zenst 6y ago

One plus-side for them logging into Netgears cloud when they boot up - IF they get stolen. In that instance, would Netgear be able to assist in there recovery and law enforcement? Certainly would add to the old saying "every cloud has a silver lining".

nikanj 6y ago
This is assuming Netgear cares
toyg 6y ago
Does anyone really steal routers and switches...? They are basically cheap as dirt or even hidden away in walls, and there is typically much better gear available during a break-in.

fxtentacle 6y ago

Am I the only one who feels like this is a huge industry espionage risk? Especially if the cloud is in China?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

encom 6y ago

>If I had bought them as a consumer, not as a business, I would have returned them immediately. Why would you not send them back as a business?

shock 6y ago
Consumer protection laws do not apply to businesses.