5 ms·

Slow or not, it becomes cryptic to write Sconsfiles with any complexity, and it's impossible to debug.

sgtnoodle 6y ago
It's python, so you can write your own abstractions as you see fit. Like any general purpose programming language, you can make something maintainable or you can make a mess.
- TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
  Sometimes having a tool prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot is kinder. But it's more than that, a good build system does not need to be Turing complete, and having Turing completeness imposes certain requirements on it that may make it inherently slower.
  - sgtnoodle 6y ago
    Going along with the firearm analogy, it's only fully useful and powerful tool once you've removed it from its case and removed the trigger lock. Any given firearm may have additional safety features such as interlocks, but they're only effective if they stay out of the way when you intend to shoot. You avoid accidentally shooting yourself and others through training, practice and discipline: treat any firearm as if it were loaded, keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to shoot, etc. When setting up a build system for multiple people to use, it's important to agree on a general approach and some rules to follow in order to keep the system from turning into a mess. It's code like anything else, and benefits from training, practice and discipline. Using a language that most folk already know is almost always better than using an obscure one out of a sense that the obscurity makes it safer. When building up a build system, I suggest focusing on designing abstractions to make 90% of use cases trivial for other developers to use. Spitting out libraries and linking them into binaries, existing autocoding scripts, etc. The other 10% of cases that other folk run into, loudly volunteer to make yourself available to help them work through it. Most of the time, there's a way to do what they need that isn't horrendous, or you can take the opportunity to improve your abstractions. If your problem is that other developers you work with just go in with a hatchet and make a mess without informing anyone, perhaps it's time to adobt some processes to address that, such as better version control hygiene and code reviews.
- barumi 6y ago
  > It's python, so you can write your own abstractions as you see fit. And that's the likely reason why scons projects become cryptic to write, impossible to debug, and unmanageable in general.

It's python, so you can write your own abstractions as you see fit. Like any general purpose programming language, you can make something maintainable or you can make a mess.

TazeTSchnitzel 6y ago
Sometimes having a tool prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot is kinder. But it's more than that, a good build system does not need to be Turing complete, and having Turing completeness imposes certain requirements on it that may make it inherently slower.
- sgtnoodle 6y ago
  Going along with the firearm analogy, it's only fully useful and powerful tool once you've removed it from its case and removed the trigger lock. Any given firearm may have additional safety features such as interlocks, but they're only effective if they stay out of the way when you intend to shoot. You avoid accidentally shooting yourself and others through training, practice and discipline: treat any firearm as if it were loaded, keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to shoot, etc. When setting up a build system for multiple people to use, it's important to agree on a general approach and some rules to follow in order to keep the system from turning into a mess. It's code like anything else, and benefits from training, practice and discipline. Using a language that most folk already know is almost always better than using an obscure one out of a sense that the obscurity makes it safer. When building up a build system, I suggest focusing on designing abstractions to make 90% of use cases trivial for other developers to use. Spitting out libraries and linking them into binaries, existing autocoding scripts, etc. The other 10% of cases that other folk run into, loudly volunteer to make yourself available to help them work through it. Most of the time, there's a way to do what they need that isn't horrendous, or you can take the opportunity to improve your abstractions. If your problem is that other developers you work with just go in with a hatchet and make a mess without informing anyone, perhaps it's time to adobt some processes to address that, such as better version control hygiene and code reviews.
barumi 6y ago
> It's python, so you can write your own abstractions as you see fit. And that's the likely reason why scons projects become cryptic to write, impossible to debug, and unmanageable in general.