6 ms·

There is a long history of taking pills of vitamins and minerals not being as good as getting it the way we evolved for. We evolved to produce vitamin D by get

There is a long history of taking pills of vitamins and minerals not being as good as getting it the way we evolved for. We evolved to produce vitamin D by getting sunlight. We are NOT evolved from nocturnal animals. A vitamin D supplement might help, but a better idea is to take a walk in the park every day, while the sun is up.

bird_monster 6y ago
Sure, and that's great, but what about the scenarios in which I cannot walk to the park (during 600+ AQI wildfires, as an example), is the reason I'd like the data on supplementation.
- undersuit 6y ago
  You can buy or make a SAD/Sun Lamp.
  - galenlynch 6y ago
    Most 'sun lamps' do not emit UVB, which is required for your body to make vitamin D.
    - undersuit 6y ago
      Then don't buy those if your looking for that feature?
      - xdavidliu 6y ago
        you're missing the point; he's saying that sun lamps don't have the same effect as the sun. This isn't just a "feature" that some lamps have and others don't; it's a crucial missing ingredient that results in the sun lamps you are suggesting simply _not working_.
        undersuit 6y ago
        No, I'm not. There are UVB generating light sources and they also fall under the SAD/Sun lamp definition.
  - UrSuchAGenius 6y ago
    What about buying vitamin D3 and ending this stupid discussion?
    - azinman2 6y ago
      Because the question is whether or not artificial supplements yield the same results as sunlight.
  - bird_monster 6y ago
    Sure, and that's great, but I'm asking about the efficacy of a supplement
    - DanBC 6y ago
      You're never going to get sensible dietary advice on HN. Get sun. If you can't get sun you should eat a variety of food that contains vitamin D. If you can't do that, you should take a supplement. Take the supplement at the same time as you eat a meal, preferably a meal that has some fat. Here's the advice for England: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/how-to-get-vitamin-d-from-sunlight/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/how-to-get-vitamin... https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-...
      - gerdesj 6y ago
        Freely available advice from the UK's NHS would seem to be a good idea. We fund the NHS mostly out of taxation, so advice provided there has to be as close to non partisan as is reasonably possible. I personally don't give a shit if you are a foreigner. If the NHS website can provide good advice and help someone - anyone, then my tax squids are being put to good use. There are bound to be other good sources of health related advice around the place but why not start with the NHS and work out from there?
        gridlockd 6y ago
        If you pay close attention, health authorities always play it safe, for example by saying "there's not enough evidence". That's why they didn't recommend masks in the beginning. Then, if some sort of expert consensus comes up, the authorities adopt that. When that consensus is challenged by new evidence, authorities are slow to change, because that would be implicit admission that they were giving the wrong advice, which is not something that the human egos involved there can easily stomach. A good example for this is the food pyramid[1]. It was never supported by good evidence, it was adopted through expert consensus (one might also call it lobbying), and it was later removed from the guidelines. You can still see posters of it hanging in doctor's offices, of course. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_USDA_nutrition_guides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_USDA_nutrition_guid...
  - ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
    These days those are called Oracle Lamps.
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
Here in Tasmania, and given the tone of my skin, in order to get enough sun exposure to provide for my vitamin D requirements... I will spend enough time in the sun to damage my skin and significantly increase the risk of melanoma.
rxhernandez 6y ago
"There are some people (who are typically not dermatologists or experts in the biology of skin cancer) who have advocated for tanning to get vitamin D. But we know that UVB light causes skin cancer and that protecting yourself against it makes sense. As a doctor who treats patients who have melanomas, I want the general public to be advised that under no circumstances can use of a tanning bed or tanning in general be justified on the basis of vitamin D. Take a supplement instead." https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/vitamin-d-myths-debunked/ https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/vitamin-d-myths-debunke...
- didibus 6y ago
  I heard tanning in short doses is actually ideal to prevent melanoma and procure the best vitamin D intake. By exposing more of the skin, you absorb more vitamin D quicker, and so if you tan only 5 to 20 minutes depending on your skin complexion, you basically avoid skin burns and excess damage which causes melanoma and you get the benefits of the sun. What do you think of this? Edit: Maybe not what people think of as tanning, but it's basically skin exposure to the sun where you want to limit how long each part of the skin is exposed, but maximise the surface area for vitamin D absorbtion. Source: https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure...
  - rxhernandez 6y ago
    After having my bloodwork show that I had low vitamin D levels a few years ago, I was told by my physician that under no circumstances should I be getting vitamin D from the sun (as risking cancer was not worth it) and to wear sunblock everytime I go outside. Frankly, I don't have the time to do an extensive literature search to find primary sources but I have seen from plenty of tertiary sources that it is a poor idea to get vitamin D from the sun. Moreover, there are plenty of foods from which you can get vitamin D.
    - didibus 6y ago
      This is the source that first got me curious about this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure... There's quite a bit of research that seem to coroborate it. Sun can cause melanoma, but lack of sun also has negative effects albeit harder to track. Some even unrelated to vitamin D, as it seems the Sun does more than just provide us with vitamin D. But it seems that the research on melanoma actually indicates that it is sunburn that is the prime cause. And sun exposure while under 20 is another leading cause. But after that, exposure that does not result in burn, like short term exposure doesn't seem to cause melanoma and does provide other health benefits. I recommend a read in any case. Not saying to go wild sun tanning, but I think if you can avoid burn (even minor ones), you're good.
nerfhammer 6y ago
Being that we are extant mammals we are evolved from nocturnal animals, just that not recently. Primates diverged to be more diurnal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_bottleneck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_bottleneck
stjohnswarts 6y ago
Some of us don't want to do that so we take vitamin D supplements and we're just fine. "Nature is always better" cult is really just magical thinking. I'm not saying that one shouldn't go for walks in the sun or that it's not healthy, but that's an individual's choice.

bird_monster 6y ago

Sure, and that's great, but what about the scenarios in which I cannot walk to the park (during 600+ AQI wildfires, as an example), is the reason I'd like the data on supplementation.

undersuit 6y ago
You can buy or make a SAD/Sun Lamp.
- galenlynch 6y ago
  Most 'sun lamps' do not emit UVB, which is required for your body to make vitamin D.
  - undersuit 6y ago
    Then don't buy those if your looking for that feature?
    - xdavidliu 6y ago
      you're missing the point; he's saying that sun lamps don't have the same effect as the sun. This isn't just a "feature" that some lamps have and others don't; it's a crucial missing ingredient that results in the sun lamps you are suggesting simply _not working_.
      - undersuit 6y ago
        No, I'm not. There are UVB generating light sources and they also fall under the SAD/Sun lamp definition.
- UrSuchAGenius 6y ago
  What about buying vitamin D3 and ending this stupid discussion?
  - azinman2 6y ago
    Because the question is whether or not artificial supplements yield the same results as sunlight.
- bird_monster 6y ago
  Sure, and that's great, but I'm asking about the efficacy of a supplement
  - DanBC 6y ago
    You're never going to get sensible dietary advice on HN. Get sun. If you can't get sun you should eat a variety of food that contains vitamin D. If you can't do that, you should take a supplement. Take the supplement at the same time as you eat a meal, preferably a meal that has some fat. Here's the advice for England: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/how-to-get-vitamin-d-from-sunlight/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/how-to-get-vitamin... https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-...
    - gerdesj 6y ago
      Freely available advice from the UK's NHS would seem to be a good idea. We fund the NHS mostly out of taxation, so advice provided there has to be as close to non partisan as is reasonably possible. I personally don't give a shit if you are a foreigner. If the NHS website can provide good advice and help someone - anyone, then my tax squids are being put to good use. There are bound to be other good sources of health related advice around the place but why not start with the NHS and work out from there?
      - gridlockd 6y ago
        If you pay close attention, health authorities always play it safe, for example by saying "there's not enough evidence". That's why they didn't recommend masks in the beginning. Then, if some sort of expert consensus comes up, the authorities adopt that. When that consensus is challenged by new evidence, authorities are slow to change, because that would be implicit admission that they were giving the wrong advice, which is not something that the human egos involved there can easily stomach. A good example for this is the food pyramid[1]. It was never supported by good evidence, it was adopted through expert consensus (one might also call it lobbying), and it was later removed from the guidelines. You can still see posters of it hanging in doctor's offices, of course. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_USDA_nutrition_guides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_USDA_nutrition_guid...
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  These days those are called Oracle Lamps.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

Here in Tasmania, and given the tone of my skin, in order to get enough sun exposure to provide for my vitamin D requirements... I will spend enough time in the sun to damage my skin and significantly increase the risk of melanoma.

rxhernandez 6y ago

"There are some people (who are typically not dermatologists or experts in the biology of skin cancer) who have advocated for tanning to get vitamin D. But we know that UVB light causes skin cancer and that protecting yourself against it makes sense. As a doctor who treats patients who have melanomas, I want the general public to be advised that under no circumstances can use of a tanning bed or tanning in general be justified on the basis of vitamin D. Take a supplement instead." https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/vitamin-d-myths-debunked/ https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/vitamin-d-myths-debunke...

didibus 6y ago
I heard tanning in short doses is actually ideal to prevent melanoma and procure the best vitamin D intake. By exposing more of the skin, you absorb more vitamin D quicker, and so if you tan only 5 to 20 minutes depending on your skin complexion, you basically avoid skin burns and excess damage which causes melanoma and you get the benefits of the sun. What do you think of this? Edit: Maybe not what people think of as tanning, but it's basically skin exposure to the sun where you want to limit how long each part of the skin is exposed, but maximise the surface area for vitamin D absorbtion. Source: https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure...
- rxhernandez 6y ago
  After having my bloodwork show that I had low vitamin D levels a few years ago, I was told by my physician that under no circumstances should I be getting vitamin D from the sun (as risking cancer was not worth it) and to wear sunblock everytime I go outside. Frankly, I don't have the time to do an extensive literature search to find primary sources but I have seen from plenty of tertiary sources that it is a poor idea to get vitamin D from the sun. Moreover, there are plenty of foods from which you can get vitamin D.
  - didibus 6y ago
    This is the source that first got me curious about this: https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure... There's quite a bit of research that seem to coroborate it. Sun can cause melanoma, but lack of sun also has negative effects albeit harder to track. Some even unrelated to vitamin D, as it seems the Sun does more than just provide us with vitamin D. But it seems that the research on melanoma actually indicates that it is sunburn that is the prime cause. And sun exposure while under 20 is another leading cause. But after that, exposure that does not result in burn, like short term exposure doesn't seem to cause melanoma and does provide other health benefits. I recommend a read in any case. Not saying to go wild sun tanning, but I think if you can avoid burn (even minor ones), you're good.

nerfhammer 6y ago

Being that we are extant mammals we are evolved from nocturnal animals, just that not recently. Primates diverged to be more diurnal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_bottleneck https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_bottleneck

stjohnswarts 6y ago

Some of us don't want to do that so we take vitamin D supplements and we're just fine. "Nature is always better" cult is really just magical thinking. I'm not saying that one shouldn't go for walks in the sun or that it's not healthy, but that's an individual's choice.