6 ms·

Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get. It might as well as deriving particle theory from of Aristotle four base elements. Plus the article is ridd

by Ygg2 6y ago

Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get. It might as well as deriving particle theory from of Aristotle four base elements. Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." It's just empty claptrap, that could have been written in half as many words, if the writer wasn't trying to be as pretentious.

coldtea 6y ago
"Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get" - you'd be surprised. People saying such have in mind some caricature of 19th century Freudian analysis. >Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." Which basically means "the final state the clickbait economy moves forward as its inherent tendency is fascist kitsch". >It's just empty claptrap, that could have been written in half as many words, if the writer wasn't trying to be as pretentious. In other words, if we talked down to his audience, assuming them to being half-illiterate Joe Sixpacks.
- Ygg2 6y ago
  > People saying such have in mind some caricature of 19th century Freudian analysis Article mentions Freud's desire for death. Freud theory is bunk. It's unprovable, can't be verified, useless and outdated model. If psychology as a whole has a replication issue. Freud psychoanalytics has a deeply existential issue. > Which basically means "the final state the clickbait economy moves forward as its inherent tendency is fascist kitsch". I know what it means. In the end you didn't explain much, just explained what telos is. Let me help - Clickbait economy is a rage generator. > other words, if we talked down to his audience, assuming them to being half-illiterate Joe Sixpacks. I read my fair share of philosophers, I understand what he's trying to say. However it's all been said better and more eloquently by CCP Grey in his video on memes. https://youtu.be/rE3j_RHkqJc https://youtu.be/rE3j_RHkqJc Any halfwit, pompous, rudderless, telos lacking humanities reject could have written, a long, detalied, baroque word salad if the whippersnapper in question was so inclined - much like this sentence. Real artistry isn't saying as much as you can, but saying as much as you can in as few and understandable words. To quote a poet "Brevity is the soul of wit".
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Article mentions Freud's desire for death. Yes. Which is not the same as a caricature of Freudian analysis. >Freud theory is bunk. It's unprovable, can't be verified Not everything has to be verified. This tendency of Anglosaxons/Analyticals to want to "verify" everything is bunk. Heck, it's itself unprovable and can't be verified (you can't verify the need for verification -- in the end you always get to some unverified tenets you need to begin, e.g. utilitarianism). >To quote a poet "Brevity is the soul of wit". To quote another poet: "I have heard many people say, "Give me the ideas, it is no matter what words you put them into.... Ideas cannot be given but in their minutely appropriate words".
    - Ygg2 6y ago
      > Not everything has to be verified. Not everything can be verified. However a self proposed science that isn't verified is just philosophy. Hence, my four elements from Aristotle. What Freudian psychoanalysis has is a semblance of science. It reminds me of quacks selling quantum energies to cure your back problems. Only instead of quantum its Phlogiston. > Heck, it's itself unprovable and can't be verified An unprovable science is just philosophizing. As for verification can't itself be verified. Purely theoretically - yes. However. Purely theoretically you could use a rock enchanted by your local witch doctor to send me this message. Are you using such device (not based on science, and verification but magical powers) to communicate? My point is, verification is based on things working in the real world, which psychoanalysis for the most part doesn't.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        >Purely theoretically you could use a rock enchanted by your local witch doctor to send me this message. Are you using such device (not based on science, and verification but magical powers) to communicate? No, but that's probably a coincidence more than anything else. Other cultures have used such methods, and were satisfied by them! We might say "sure, but they were ignorant, those methods didn't work", etc. -- but if they had no qualms about them at the time, our objection is somewhat moot...
unishark 6y ago
> Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." That's a quote from the book, which the reviewer does say "...some will find unbearably pretentious"
- Ygg2 6y ago
  Indeed, Correct. However, still doesn't address my issue. It's talking circles and full of fun word phrases like "chronophage", "pettifogger". > That's a quote from the book, which the reviewer does say "...some will find unbearably pretentious" Sure. He found it charming. No wonder why.
  - unishark 6y ago
    Well presumably he read it because he wanted to. I wouldn't have survived such language myself either, luckily "Max" was there to boil it down for you and I. And I found the review fairly amusing for a while. It cited some competing theories, including the book's theory which, despite psychoanalysis equating to people pulling complex theories out of their favorite orifice, was still a rather interesting theory worth thinking about. Certainly it beat a lot of articles about "fixing" social media which often seem to be little more than attempts at maximizing ad revenue by packing in lots of references to famous recent outrages and/or Trump (who barely got a mention here).
hexxiiiz 6y ago
While I did not find this article particularly deep, psychoanalysis has hardly been discredited. The core of the theory has been infused into almost every psychological modality practiced today aside from CBT, and studies have shown its general efficacy as a practice to be on par with others and in some cases superior. For the past 20 or so years, the field of neuropsychoanalysis under Mark Solms et al. has done a lot of good work understanding memory, dreaming, and higher cognitive processes stemming from Freud's ideas. Nobel Laureat Eric Kandel wrote in the 90's that psychoanalysis still constitutes the most intellectually satisfying model of the mind; Kandel has gone on to promote studying psychoanalytic ideas with modern neuroscientific techniques. Although several authors have been critical of psychoanalysis, having been criticized by some does not make an idea instantly discredited. There remains no clear way to verify a model of higher cognitive processes in the same fashion as a physics formula.
- Ygg2 6y ago
  > Hardly been discredited. In 2015, psychoanalyst Bradley Peterson, who is also a child psychiatrist and director of the Institute for the Developing Mind at Children's Hospital Los Angeles, said: "I think most people would agree that psychoanalysis as a form of treatment is on its last legs." https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/tell-it-about-your-mother.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/tell-it-about-yo... Not really singing its praises. > Nobel Laureat Eric Kandel wrote in the 90's Sure and Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman said: > If you look at all of the complicated ideas that they have developed in an infinitesimal amount of time, if you compare to any other of the sciences how long it takes to get one idea after the other, if you consider all the structures and inventions and complicated things, the ids and the egos, the tensions and the forces, and the pushes and the pulls, I tell you they can't all be there. It's too much for one brain or a few brains to have cooked up in such a short time.
  - exaltation999 6y ago
    In 2020, "exaltation999"'s grandmother, said: "I think Ygg2 is an absolute idiot". That's the weight of your argument. Capitalism desires to bring psychoanalysis to its knees and there's a reason for this. Watch some Zizek on Youtube. Do your research.
NicolasGorden 6y ago
The toxicity of social media is that it plays into the darkness of our cognitive process and hightens tribalistic thinking. And in the article about social media, instead of recognizing this, the author chooses to use social media as a jump off point to pseudo intellectually glorify his tribe while bemoaning the oposite tribe. It's re-hashed fox/cnn with longer words. As someone who is non-affiliate to either tribe and finds the tribalism silly, the conceited sound of the article is jarring. I'm pretty sure the inspiration for South Park's smug alert episode was based on people who write this stuff. The author talks about the good of social media as such: > street uprising of the late spring felt like its joyous opposite—a future in which platforms were responding to and being structured by the events on the ground, rather than those events being structured by and shaped to the demands of the platforms. This was something worth our time and devotion... As people in the streets toppled statues and fought police... And talks about the perils and evils of social media as such: > promoting people who exist only to be explained to, people to whom the world has been created anew every morning, people for whom every settled sociological, scientific, and political argument of modernity must be rehashed, rewritten, and re-accounted, this time with their participation. These people, with their just-asking questions and vapid open letters, are dullards and bores, pettifoggers and casuists, cowards and dissemblers... That we get some kind of fulfillment from tedious debates about “free speech” and “cancel culture.” ... why not spend a few decades of it with a couple New York Times op-ed columnists, rebuilding all of Western thought from first principles?

by Ygg2 6y ago

coldtea 6y ago

"Psychoanalytic is as discredited as theory can get" - you'd be surprised. People saying such have in mind some caricature of 19th century Freudian analysis. >Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." Which basically means "the final state the clickbait economy moves forward as its inherent tendency is fascist kitsch". >It's just empty claptrap, that could have been written in half as many words, if the writer wasn't trying to be as pretentious. In other words, if we talked down to his audience, assuming them to being half-illiterate Joe Sixpacks.

Ygg2 6y ago
> People saying such have in mind some caricature of 19th century Freudian analysis Article mentions Freud's desire for death. Freud theory is bunk. It's unprovable, can't be verified, useless and outdated model. If psychology as a whole has a replication issue. Freud psychoanalytics has a deeply existential issue. > Which basically means "the final state the clickbait economy moves forward as its inherent tendency is fascist kitsch". I know what it means. In the end you didn't explain much, just explained what telos is. Let me help - Clickbait economy is a rage generator. > other words, if we talked down to his audience, assuming them to being half-illiterate Joe Sixpacks. I read my fair share of philosophers, I understand what he's trying to say. However it's all been said better and more eloquently by CCP Grey in his video on memes. https://youtu.be/rE3j_RHkqJc https://youtu.be/rE3j_RHkqJc Any halfwit, pompous, rudderless, telos lacking humanities reject could have written, a long, detalied, baroque word salad if the whippersnapper in question was so inclined - much like this sentence. Real artistry isn't saying as much as you can, but saying as much as you can in as few and understandable words. To quote a poet "Brevity is the soul of wit".
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Article mentions Freud's desire for death. Yes. Which is not the same as a caricature of Freudian analysis. >Freud theory is bunk. It's unprovable, can't be verified Not everything has to be verified. This tendency of Anglosaxons/Analyticals to want to "verify" everything is bunk. Heck, it's itself unprovable and can't be verified (you can't verify the need for verification -- in the end you always get to some unverified tenets you need to begin, e.g. utilitarianism). >To quote a poet "Brevity is the soul of wit". To quote another poet: "I have heard many people say, "Give me the ideas, it is no matter what words you put them into.... Ideas cannot be given but in their minutely appropriate words".
  - Ygg2 6y ago
    > Not everything has to be verified. Not everything can be verified. However a self proposed science that isn't verified is just philosophy. Hence, my four elements from Aristotle. What Freudian psychoanalysis has is a semblance of science. It reminds me of quacks selling quantum energies to cure your back problems. Only instead of quantum its Phlogiston. > Heck, it's itself unprovable and can't be verified An unprovable science is just philosophizing. As for verification can't itself be verified. Purely theoretically - yes. However. Purely theoretically you could use a rock enchanted by your local witch doctor to send me this message. Are you using such device (not based on science, and verification but magical powers) to communicate? My point is, verification is based on things working in the real world, which psychoanalysis for the most part doesn't.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >Purely theoretically you could use a rock enchanted by your local witch doctor to send me this message. Are you using such device (not based on science, and verification but magical powers) to communicate? No, but that's probably a coincidence more than anything else. Other cultures have used such methods, and were satisfied by them! We might say "sure, but they were ignorant, those methods didn't work", etc. -- but if they had no qualms about them at the time, our objection is somewhat moot...

unishark 6y ago

> Plus the article is riddled with sentences like "telos of the clickbait economy is fascist kitsch." That's a quote from the book, which the reviewer does say "...some will find unbearably pretentious"

Ygg2 6y ago
Indeed, Correct. However, still doesn't address my issue. It's talking circles and full of fun word phrases like "chronophage", "pettifogger". > That's a quote from the book, which the reviewer does say "...some will find unbearably pretentious" Sure. He found it charming. No wonder why.
- unishark 6y ago
  Well presumably he read it because he wanted to. I wouldn't have survived such language myself either, luckily "Max" was there to boil it down for you and I. And I found the review fairly amusing for a while. It cited some competing theories, including the book's theory which, despite psychoanalysis equating to people pulling complex theories out of their favorite orifice, was still a rather interesting theory worth thinking about. Certainly it beat a lot of articles about "fixing" social media which often seem to be little more than attempts at maximizing ad revenue by packing in lots of references to famous recent outrages and/or Trump (who barely got a mention here).

hexxiiiz 6y ago

While I did not find this article particularly deep, psychoanalysis has hardly been discredited. The core of the theory has been infused into almost every psychological modality practiced today aside from CBT, and studies have shown its general efficacy as a practice to be on par with others and in some cases superior. For the past 20 or so years, the field of neuropsychoanalysis under Mark Solms et al. has done a lot of good work understanding memory, dreaming, and higher cognitive processes stemming from Freud's ideas. Nobel Laureat Eric Kandel wrote in the 90's that psychoanalysis still constitutes the most intellectually satisfying model of the mind; Kandel has gone on to promote studying psychoanalytic ideas with modern neuroscientific techniques. Although several authors have been critical of psychoanalysis, having been criticized by some does not make an idea instantly discredited. There remains no clear way to verify a model of higher cognitive processes in the same fashion as a physics formula.

Ygg2 6y ago
> Hardly been discredited. In 2015, psychoanalyst Bradley Peterson, who is also a child psychiatrist and director of the Institute for the Developing Mind at Children's Hospital Los Angeles, said: "I think most people would agree that psychoanalysis as a form of treatment is on its last legs." https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/tell-it-about-your-mother.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/tell-it-about-yo... Not really singing its praises. > Nobel Laureat Eric Kandel wrote in the 90's Sure and Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman said: > If you look at all of the complicated ideas that they have developed in an infinitesimal amount of time, if you compare to any other of the sciences how long it takes to get one idea after the other, if you consider all the structures and inventions and complicated things, the ids and the egos, the tensions and the forces, and the pushes and the pulls, I tell you they can't all be there. It's too much for one brain or a few brains to have cooked up in such a short time.
- exaltation999 6y ago
  In 2020, "exaltation999"'s grandmother, said: "I think Ygg2 is an absolute idiot". That's the weight of your argument. Capitalism desires to bring psychoanalysis to its knees and there's a reason for this. Watch some Zizek on Youtube. Do your research.

NicolasGorden 6y ago

The toxicity of social media is that it plays into the darkness of our cognitive process and hightens tribalistic thinking. And in the article about social media, instead of recognizing this, the author chooses to use social media as a jump off point to pseudo intellectually glorify his tribe while bemoaning the oposite tribe. It's re-hashed fox/cnn with longer words. As someone who is non-affiliate to either tribe and finds the tribalism silly, the conceited sound of the article is jarring. I'm pretty sure the inspiration for South Park's smug alert episode was based on people who write this stuff. The author talks about the good of social media as such: > street uprising of the late spring felt like its joyous opposite—a future in which platforms were responding to and being structured by the events on the ground, rather than those events being structured by and shaped to the demands of the platforms. This was something worth our time and devotion... As people in the streets toppled statues and fought police... And talks about the perils and evils of social media as such: > promoting people who exist only to be explained to, people to whom the world has been created anew every morning, people for whom every settled sociological, scientific, and political argument of modernity must be rehashed, rewritten, and re-accounted, this time with their participation. These people, with their just-asking questions and vapid open letters, are dullards and bores, pettifoggers and casuists, cowards and dissemblers... That we get some kind of fulfillment from tedious debates about “free speech” and “cancel culture.” ... why not spend a few decades of it with a couple New York Times op-ed columnists, rebuilding all of Western thought from first principles?