4 ms·

This is very bad news for Silicon Valley. Allow me to explain: As long as TikTok was around any talk of controlling or splitting the big tech could have been

This is very bad news for Silicon Valley. Allow me to explain: As long as TikTok was around any talk of controlling or splitting the big tech could have been diverted by saying if you regulate or break us, China will take over the vacuum left behind. With TikTok not only gone but also will be used as a precedence, big tech have lost the "China will take over" argument. Because the answer would be, no, we won't allow China to fill the vacuum and at the same we are going to heavily regulate you. Whoever is coordinating (if it's coordinated) the future demise and break up of big tech has definitely earned their think tank salary.

nitinreddy88 6y ago
Big Tech is never a good idea (Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook) all are same corporate entities.
stephc_int13 6y ago
I think this is good news. When corporations are too big, this cause the same kind of bloat, corruptions and anti-innovative climate as when states are controlled by too powerful bureaucracies. There is a threshold, of course, but unfortunately we've allowed a few companies to go well past this deleterious threshold.
- gundmc 6y ago
  Ironically, you could argue that WeChat is one of the most innovative tech platforms in the last half decade despite CCP ties.
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    The sheer amount that it is used for in China is quite fascinating. Too bad the CCP is almost certainly also using it as a means to track and keep their citizenry in line.
- epistasis 6y ago
  I agree, it would be great for the big tech companies to be split. When was the last time that Google innovated rather than acquired? Maps, gmail, YouTube... Capitalism works best when there's a wide spread of power and wealth is not too concentrated. There can't be proper markets with monopoly or monopsony.
  - tolbish 6y ago
    Google has actually gotten quite worse over the past few years. Google Fi's customer service is slumlord level of scummy. Just this past week they straight up lied to me about trade-ins. I documented the story here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24486769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24486769
  - mandeepj 6y ago
    > Google innovated rather than acquired acquisition is also innovation. It's a skill, and highly sought after - whether to build or buy. There is someone (or multiple) keeping an eye on inorganic growth via acquisitions. The plan was in place to have Maps etc. So, while building road map or having long term discussions - they decided to get a head-start by going via acquisition route. Remember, they did not stop at acquisition or it did not die because the long term was already in place.
  - warbaker 6y ago
    Gmail was developed internally.
- scarface74 6y ago
  I’m much more worried about a corrupt state that has the power to take away my freedom, liberty, and life than a corporation. A corrupt company can’t take my property through eminent domain and civil forfeiture or declare some phony “War on $X” that disproportionately is used against one group. The current administration is not going after Big Tech “for the people”. It is doing it expressly because they think Google, Facebook, and Twitter are being unfair to conservatives. In what universe is Twitter any type of monopoly that needs to be reigned in by the government?
  - stephc_int13 6y ago
    I don't think Twitter should be a target. But Amazon, Google, Apple and Facebook have too much power in their hands.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      I can much more easily choose to not by or use a product from any of those companies than I can choose to leave the US. But isn’t telling that the administration is going after Twitter and not Apple? Could it possibly be that Cook has kissed the golden ring plenty of times and Twitter is pushing back? You should be wary of government no matter which side you on. Since the government has started meddling in tech in the 90s, has any good law been passed by Democrats or Republicans?
  - epistasis 6y ago
    Twitter needs to be reigned in when it is considered the only good option, and there's no chance for a competitor. Suppose some company had cornered the web search market, and nobody would even try to use some other web search, and used that position to control advertising and all sorts of other access to the web. Perhaps they even come to control the most commonly used web browser; the most commonly used mobile OS. In that environment, where a single company controls the OS and the search and the vast majority of access to the web, are you really more fearful of "eminent domain" than you are of the company wiping you out before you have a chance to capture a piece of the pie by our competing them? When was the last time a tech company had to worry about civil forfeiture or eminent domain?
- ffhhj 6y ago
  Now if they could just shut down that online image gallery that gets into politics while censoring its own employees.
- skohan 6y ago
  Yes like how much hiring at big tech firms is based on actual engineering needs, vs. just trying to scoop up all the engineering talent before a competitor does (or just pricing startups out of the market)
gizmo686 6y ago
There is still the international market. The US wields a lot of power by its influence over big tech. The US does not have nearly as much ability to ban Chinese apps from the international market as it does domestically.
- sharpneli 6y ago
  US controls both Google and Apple. If US desired it can just add the app devs into the entity list like Huawei was added.
consumer451 6y ago
I am curious, which specific think tanks do you believe would work on “breaking up big tech?”
ThomPete 6y ago
I think this is missing the point. We don't have access to China exactly because they keep us out and force our technology on their hands to get in there.

nitinreddy88 6y ago

Big Tech is never a good idea (Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook) all are same corporate entities.

stephc_int13 6y ago

I think this is good news. When corporations are too big, this cause the same kind of bloat, corruptions and anti-innovative climate as when states are controlled by too powerful bureaucracies. There is a threshold, of course, but unfortunately we've allowed a few companies to go well past this deleterious threshold.

gundmc 6y ago
Ironically, you could argue that WeChat is one of the most innovative tech platforms in the last half decade despite CCP ties.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  The sheer amount that it is used for in China is quite fascinating. Too bad the CCP is almost certainly also using it as a means to track and keep their citizenry in line.
epistasis 6y ago
I agree, it would be great for the big tech companies to be split. When was the last time that Google innovated rather than acquired? Maps, gmail, YouTube... Capitalism works best when there's a wide spread of power and wealth is not too concentrated. There can't be proper markets with monopoly or monopsony.
- tolbish 6y ago
  Google has actually gotten quite worse over the past few years. Google Fi's customer service is slumlord level of scummy. Just this past week they straight up lied to me about trade-ins. I documented the story here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24486769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24486769
- mandeepj 6y ago
  > Google innovated rather than acquired acquisition is also innovation. It's a skill, and highly sought after - whether to build or buy. There is someone (or multiple) keeping an eye on inorganic growth via acquisitions. The plan was in place to have Maps etc. So, while building road map or having long term discussions - they decided to get a head-start by going via acquisition route. Remember, they did not stop at acquisition or it did not die because the long term was already in place.
- warbaker 6y ago
  Gmail was developed internally.
scarface74 6y ago
I’m much more worried about a corrupt state that has the power to take away my freedom, liberty, and life than a corporation. A corrupt company can’t take my property through eminent domain and civil forfeiture or declare some phony “War on $X” that disproportionately is used against one group. The current administration is not going after Big Tech “for the people”. It is doing it expressly because they think Google, Facebook, and Twitter are being unfair to conservatives. In what universe is Twitter any type of monopoly that needs to be reigned in by the government?
- stephc_int13 6y ago
  I don't think Twitter should be a target. But Amazon, Google, Apple and Facebook have too much power in their hands.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    I can much more easily choose to not by or use a product from any of those companies than I can choose to leave the US. But isn’t telling that the administration is going after Twitter and not Apple? Could it possibly be that Cook has kissed the golden ring plenty of times and Twitter is pushing back? You should be wary of government no matter which side you on. Since the government has started meddling in tech in the 90s, has any good law been passed by Democrats or Republicans?
- epistasis 6y ago
  Twitter needs to be reigned in when it is considered the only good option, and there's no chance for a competitor. Suppose some company had cornered the web search market, and nobody would even try to use some other web search, and used that position to control advertising and all sorts of other access to the web. Perhaps they even come to control the most commonly used web browser; the most commonly used mobile OS. In that environment, where a single company controls the OS and the search and the vast majority of access to the web, are you really more fearful of "eminent domain" than you are of the company wiping you out before you have a chance to capture a piece of the pie by our competing them? When was the last time a tech company had to worry about civil forfeiture or eminent domain?
ffhhj 6y ago
Now if they could just shut down that online image gallery that gets into politics while censoring its own employees.
skohan 6y ago
Yes like how much hiring at big tech firms is based on actual engineering needs, vs. just trying to scoop up all the engineering talent before a competitor does (or just pricing startups out of the market)

gizmo686 6y ago

There is still the international market. The US wields a lot of power by its influence over big tech. The US does not have nearly as much ability to ban Chinese apps from the international market as it does domestically.

sharpneli 6y ago
US controls both Google and Apple. If US desired it can just add the app devs into the entity list like Huawei was added.

consumer451 6y ago

I am curious, which specific think tanks do you believe would work on “breaking up big tech?”

ThomPete 6y ago

I think this is missing the point. We don't have access to China exactly because they keep us out and force our technology on their hands to get in there.