5 ms·

RBG was also the voice of reason when Justice Kavanaugh was under attack by an unhinged mob. She truly could see beyond politics, and will be missed by both si

RBG was also the voice of reason when Justice Kavanaugh was under attack by an unhinged mob. She truly could see beyond politics, and will be missed by both sides of the aisle.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
michaelmrose 6y ago
I really don't believe legitimate criticism is problematic and it is very problematic to call people who speak out an "unhinged mob" Karanaugh's interesting interpretation of the law is enough to give him a hard pass but he also lied under oath.
- __blockcipher__ 6y ago
  Probably best to not dig into the details too much since this thread isn't about that, but I personally absolutely understand why they characterized it as an "unhinged mob", given you had a very transparent attempt to fabricate a life-altering rape claim in order to hold up a nomination. I watched every minute of the hearing, read the memo released by Rachel Mitchell (the lawyer hired by the Republicans to ask questions in their stead), and did a bunch of other research around the issue, and it became clear to me that the story was completely fabricated, given that even close friends of the accuser could not corroborate her story, let alone the party itself ever having existed, and Kavanaugh produced a (weirdly) meticulous calendar that showed that he wasn't in the area whatsoever. Personally, I am a strong believer that sexual assault is a criminal matter. It's not the kind of thing you stay silent about for decades, having never stored any memorandums of the alleged crime (the therapist notes did not name Kavanaugh specifically and were relatively recent), and then try to spring on someone to prevent their appointment. If you really think someone is a rapist, you should try to put them in jail, not just stop them from taking a political position. (And yes, I understand that often victims do not want to bring up criminal charges and I understand why. But if you haven't documented any real evidence, trying to bring up an issue 3-4 decades later is just totally absurd. These are life-destroying claims being made here. Ford (the accuser) had NO EVIDENCE (the "therapist's notes" did not identify Kavanaugh, or go into any detail into the supposed act)). Anyway, I've rambled enough. Sorry for the wall of text, but I really hate how so many friends of mine to this day still think Kavanaugh is a rapist without a shred of evidence; indeed, it's worse than that because all the evidence makes me personally feel that this was a case of outright deceit rather than false memory or a simple mixup. There were just too many contradictions and changes to the story and lack of detail where it really mattered to make the allegation even remotely credible, even if we use a "there's reasonable cause to believe he was a rapist" standard. That is to say that I don't think Blasey Ford met even an incredibly weak standard of evidence.
  - slg 6y ago
    >[sexual assault is] not the kind of thing you stay silent about for decades, having never stored any memorandums of the alleged crime I'm not going to get into any specifics about Kavanaugh, but this is flatly untrue. Plenty of people stay silent about being assaulted. One reason is people like you who will call them liars whenever they come forward.
    - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
      I literally addressed that concern immediately after. You misunderstand my words.
      - slg 6y ago
        No I understood your words. You misunderstand the damage your words could cause. There is little in the way of proof that could possibly exist for a 35+ year old rape. You are not only calling this woman a liar because she can't provide something that doesn't exist, but you are also saying she shouldn't even come forward unless she has enough proof to put this man in jail. That shows a total lack of knowledge of these type of crimes and a total lack of empathy towards the victims of these crimes. The end result is that people with your mindset continue to discourage victims from coming forward.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    > not the kind of thing you stay silent about for decades It is precisely that kind of thing. I know several women who have done exactly this, even including hiding abuse from their parents.
    - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
      I am aware of that, thus why I immediately followed my statement up with this: > And yes, I understand that often victims do not want to bring up criminal charges and I understand why. But if you haven't documented any real evidence, trying to bring up an issue 3-4 decades later is just totally absurd. These are life-destroying claims being made here. Ford (the accuser) had NO EVIDENCE My point is, if you wait 30 years to come forward, you should have evidence. If you don’t have evidence then don’t expect someone to not be confirmed. Again this case was worse than no evidence because the “evidence” presented was mutually contradictory
- marcusverus 6y ago
  >Karanaugh's interesting interpretation of the law is enough to give him a hard pass but he also lied under oath. Source?
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/brett-kavanaugh-perjury-confirmation-hearing-deborah-ramirez-new-allegations https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/b...
  - jasonlotito 6y ago
    Easy to search for. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-brett-kavanaugh-appears-to-have-lied-to-congress-while-under-oath/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-bret... These are fairly clear cut lies to congress.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  No, he didn’t.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    See the other replies https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/brett-kavanaugh-perjury-confirmation-hearing-deborah-ramirez-new-allegations https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/b... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-brett-kavanaugh-appears-to-have-lied-to-congress-while-under-oath/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-bret...
- tiziniano 6y ago
  I mean I will take RBG's opinion over the unhinged mob's any day. If you admire her, why not try to understand why she defended him?
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    Why would we be obliged to take her opinion on him in place of deriving our own opinion from his dishonesty and prior behavior?
roamerz 6y ago
The voice? I think there were many voices of reason that had his back. It was very enlightening to see what extremes people will go to at times.
- wyclif 6y ago
  There wasn't any credible evidence that he had attended any such party, let alone done the things Blasey Ford claimed he did. Or even that Blasey Ford knew him then. That's why it fell apart. So, yes, "unhinged mob" is a completely appropriate description of the clown car attempt to disqualify him. If Amy Coney Barrett is the nominee, expect random men to come out of the woodwork claiming that she raped them in college. Recall how hard the left had to reach to dredge up dirt in the Kavanaugh circus but now having to do it against a woman with even less actual material to work with. Still, I wouldn't put it past the wokies to attempt it. Nothing from these people surprises me anymore.
preommr 6y ago
I still don't understand how, putting aside the rape allegations, kavanaugh's outbursts about Clinton conspiracy theories, "I like beer", and flat out lies about things like "Devil's triangle" being a drinking game didn't disqualify him. You can say that the rape wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Or that the outbursts were him having a bad day (it's not like SCOTUS is a very exclusive position /s). But that lie about devil's triangle being a game of quarters is so blatant. It's an incredibly common term that I am sure the average person has heard and can say that was an obvious lie.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  I didn't follow the controversy, but I've never heard of a devil's triangle.

RBG was also the voice of reason when Justice Kavanaugh was under attack by an unhinged mob. She truly could see beyond politics, and will be missed by both sides of the aisle.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

michaelmrose 6y ago

I really don't believe legitimate criticism is problematic and it is very problematic to call people who speak out an "unhinged mob" Karanaugh's interesting interpretation of the law is enough to give him a hard pass but he also lied under oath.

__blockcipher__ 6y ago
Probably best to not dig into the details too much since this thread isn't about that, but I personally absolutely understand why they characterized it as an "unhinged mob", given you had a very transparent attempt to fabricate a life-altering rape claim in order to hold up a nomination. I watched every minute of the hearing, read the memo released by Rachel Mitchell (the lawyer hired by the Republicans to ask questions in their stead), and did a bunch of other research around the issue, and it became clear to me that the story was completely fabricated, given that even close friends of the accuser could not corroborate her story, let alone the party itself ever having existed, and Kavanaugh produced a (weirdly) meticulous calendar that showed that he wasn't in the area whatsoever. Personally, I am a strong believer that sexual assault is a criminal matter. It's not the kind of thing you stay silent about for decades, having never stored any memorandums of the alleged crime (the therapist notes did not name Kavanaugh specifically and were relatively recent), and then try to spring on someone to prevent their appointment. If you really think someone is a rapist, you should try to put them in jail, not just stop them from taking a political position. (And yes, I understand that often victims do not want to bring up criminal charges and I understand why. But if you haven't documented any real evidence, trying to bring up an issue 3-4 decades later is just totally absurd. These are life-destroying claims being made here. Ford (the accuser) had NO EVIDENCE (the "therapist's notes" did not identify Kavanaugh, or go into any detail into the supposed act)). Anyway, I've rambled enough. Sorry for the wall of text, but I really hate how so many friends of mine to this day still think Kavanaugh is a rapist without a shred of evidence; indeed, it's worse than that because all the evidence makes me personally feel that this was a case of outright deceit rather than false memory or a simple mixup. There were just too many contradictions and changes to the story and lack of detail where it really mattered to make the allegation even remotely credible, even if we use a "there's reasonable cause to believe he was a rapist" standard. That is to say that I don't think Blasey Ford met even an incredibly weak standard of evidence.
- slg 6y ago
  >[sexual assault is] not the kind of thing you stay silent about for decades, having never stored any memorandums of the alleged crime I'm not going to get into any specifics about Kavanaugh, but this is flatly untrue. Plenty of people stay silent about being assaulted. One reason is people like you who will call them liars whenever they come forward.
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    I literally addressed that concern immediately after. You misunderstand my words.
    - slg 6y ago
      No I understood your words. You misunderstand the damage your words could cause. There is little in the way of proof that could possibly exist for a 35+ year old rape. You are not only calling this woman a liar because she can't provide something that doesn't exist, but you are also saying she shouldn't even come forward unless she has enough proof to put this man in jail. That shows a total lack of knowledge of these type of crimes and a total lack of empathy towards the victims of these crimes. The end result is that people with your mindset continue to discourage victims from coming forward.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  > not the kind of thing you stay silent about for decades It is precisely that kind of thing. I know several women who have done exactly this, even including hiding abuse from their parents.
  - __blockcipher__ 6y ago
    I am aware of that, thus why I immediately followed my statement up with this: > And yes, I understand that often victims do not want to bring up criminal charges and I understand why. But if you haven't documented any real evidence, trying to bring up an issue 3-4 decades later is just totally absurd. These are life-destroying claims being made here. Ford (the accuser) had NO EVIDENCE My point is, if you wait 30 years to come forward, you should have evidence. If you don’t have evidence then don’t expect someone to not be confirmed. Again this case was worse than no evidence because the “evidence” presented was mutually contradictory
marcusverus 6y ago
>Karanaugh's interesting interpretation of the law is enough to give him a hard pass but he also lied under oath. Source?
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/brett-kavanaugh-perjury-confirmation-hearing-deborah-ramirez-new-allegations https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/b...
- jasonlotito 6y ago
  Easy to search for. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-brett-kavanaugh-appears-to-have-lied-to-congress-while-under-oath/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-bret... These are fairly clear cut lies to congress.
lawnchair_larry 6y ago
No, he didn’t.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  See the other replies https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/brett-kavanaugh-perjury-confirmation-hearing-deborah-ramirez-new-allegations https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/15/20866829/b... https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-brett-kavanaugh-appears-to-have-lied-to-congress-while-under-oath/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/09/five-times-bret...
tiziniano 6y ago
I mean I will take RBG's opinion over the unhinged mob's any day. If you admire her, why not try to understand why she defended him?
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  Why would we be obliged to take her opinion on him in place of deriving our own opinion from his dishonesty and prior behavior?

roamerz 6y ago

The voice? I think there were many voices of reason that had his back. It was very enlightening to see what extremes people will go to at times.

wyclif 6y ago
There wasn't any credible evidence that he had attended any such party, let alone done the things Blasey Ford claimed he did. Or even that Blasey Ford knew him then. That's why it fell apart. So, yes, "unhinged mob" is a completely appropriate description of the clown car attempt to disqualify him. If Amy Coney Barrett is the nominee, expect random men to come out of the woodwork claiming that she raped them in college. Recall how hard the left had to reach to dredge up dirt in the Kavanaugh circus but now having to do it against a woman with even less actual material to work with. Still, I wouldn't put it past the wokies to attempt it. Nothing from these people surprises me anymore.

preommr 6y ago

I still don't understand how, putting aside the rape allegations, kavanaugh's outbursts about Clinton conspiracy theories, "I like beer", and flat out lies about things like "Devil's triangle" being a drinking game didn't disqualify him. You can say that the rape wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Or that the outbursts were him having a bad day (it's not like SCOTUS is a very exclusive position /s). But that lie about devil's triangle being a game of quarters is so blatant. It's an incredibly common term that I am sure the average person has heard and can say that was an obvious lie.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
I didn't follow the controversy, but I've never heard of a devil's triangle.