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The potential ramifications of this are chilling. If the Republicans mishandle this, it could drastically increase the chances of widespread conflict around the

The potential ramifications of this are chilling. If the Republicans mishandle this, it could drastically increase the chances of widespread conflict around the time of the elections.

tomrod 6y ago
I figure it was already pretty high to begin with.
jagger27 6y ago
It seems to me that widespread conflict is exactly what Trump republicans want. Just this weeks' news: mass hysterectomies in ICE camps, Trump's tirade on rewriting school history books on slavery, overt mail service destruction, more anti-mask rhetoric, and the list goes on and on. They're putting the pedal to the metal.
- DenisM 6y ago
  >mass hysterectomies in ICE camps It seems quite a bit over the top. Do you really think it's true?
  - jagger27 6y ago
    What makes you so skeptical? I don’t think it’s off-message at all for this admin to order such a thing.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- edbob 6y ago
  > mass hysterectomies in ICE camps All I found was two allegations against a single doctor. That's horrible if true, but it seems like a typical case of medical malpractice that has nothing whatsoever to do with the administration.
  - jagger27 6y ago
    Perhaps it was a single rogue doctor, though I wouldn't use "typical malpractice" to describe such a heinous act. What I do see is this: orders coming right from the top on specific detention policy.[1] They were willing to do child separation in the innocent days of 2018, and they got away with it. What is stopping these same people from getting bolder with their ideas and orders? 1: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-cabinet-officials-voted-2018-white-house-meeting-separate-migrant-n1237416 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-cabinet-o...
    - edbob 6y ago
      > What is stopping these same people from getting bolder with their ideas and orders? The law? Your complaint is about the administration overzealously enforcing existing laws. How does that lead you to believe that they would begin completely ignoring the law? According to your source, "child separation" was an incidental effect of prosecuting illegal immigrants for crimes. When I was prosecuted, I was also detained and separated from my family. It was unpleasant to say the least, but it was fair. I don't see why illegal immigrants should be given preferential treatment. Crime has consequences.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    And it was only one hysterectomy. [0] For cancer. Crying wolf like this does no one any good. 0: https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e
jariel 6y ago
Widespread conflict will get Trump elected, this is already proving the case as people see 'violence' instead of 'protesting' Trump is getting momentum. Don Lemon on CNN literally asking for people to calm down due to this fact. Edit: Trump's support grew consistently as public support for BLM waned in face of the 'perception of violence' [1] - which Trump's team sees and is why he's pushing a 'law and order' message. The risk of BLM is that 'empathy' will easily be overwhelmed by 'concern' if pictures of violence play out on their TV screens every night. People will always chose public order over almost anything else. [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/02/trump-black-lives-matter-poll-407227 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/02/trump-black-lives-m...
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  > this is already proving the case Except it doesn't seem like the violence and rioting so far has actually helped Trump: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-law-and-order-message-isnt-resonating-with-most-americans/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-law-and-order-me...
  - jariel 6y ago
    Your reference doesn't support your point. Trump's 'Law and Justice' messaging may not be helping, but his approval ratings have improved as the protests have continued and none of the data in the article diminishes that. It doesn't surprise me that many people support Biden as the mostly likely to 'quell tensions' etc. - however - that's not the same thing as the instinctive response to seeing widespread violence on TV. Listen to Lemon [1]: "“It’s showing up in the polling. It’s showing up in focus groups. It is the only thing right now that is sticking,” Lemon said ahead of "CNN Tonight" on Tuesday. “The riots and the protests have become indistinguishable." This I believe. More directly from Nate Silver here [2] where he is unsure there is a correlation, but since that article, the meme has continued and Trump has drifted up for no other apparent reason along the same trend line. I don't like the man, the 'trend' is not good. Just a few weeks ago it looked like this would be over, now, there are many paths for him to come to win. A showdown over Ginsberg replacement may be the decisive battle. [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/media/513742-cnns-lemon-warns-of-democratic-blind-spot-on-riots-it-shows-up-in-the-polling https://thehill.com/homenews/media/513742-cnns-lemon-warns-o... [2] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/could-a-backlash-against-black-lives-matter-hurt-biden-the-two-dont-appear-linked-so-far/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/could-a-backlash-agains...

The potential ramifications of this are chilling. If the Republicans mishandle this, it could drastically increase the chances of widespread conflict around the time of the elections.

tomrod 6y ago

I figure it was already pretty high to begin with.

jagger27 6y ago

It seems to me that widespread conflict is exactly what Trump republicans want. Just this weeks' news: mass hysterectomies in ICE camps, Trump's tirade on rewriting school history books on slavery, overt mail service destruction, more anti-mask rhetoric, and the list goes on and on. They're putting the pedal to the metal.

DenisM 6y ago
>mass hysterectomies in ICE camps It seems quite a bit over the top. Do you really think it's true?
- jagger27 6y ago
  What makes you so skeptical? I don’t think it’s off-message at all for this admin to order such a thing.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
edbob 6y ago
> mass hysterectomies in ICE camps All I found was two allegations against a single doctor. That's horrible if true, but it seems like a typical case of medical malpractice that has nothing whatsoever to do with the administration.
- jagger27 6y ago
  Perhaps it was a single rogue doctor, though I wouldn't use "typical malpractice" to describe such a heinous act. What I do see is this: orders coming right from the top on specific detention policy.[1] They were willing to do child separation in the innocent days of 2018, and they got away with it. What is stopping these same people from getting bolder with their ideas and orders? 1: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-cabinet-officials-voted-2018-white-house-meeting-separate-migrant-n1237416 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-cabinet-o...
  - edbob 6y ago
    > What is stopping these same people from getting bolder with their ideas and orders? The law? Your complaint is about the administration overzealously enforcing existing laws. How does that lead you to believe that they would begin completely ignoring the law? According to your source, "child separation" was an incidental effect of prosecuting illegal immigrants for crimes. When I was prosecuted, I was also detained and separated from my family. It was unpleasant to say the least, but it was fair. I don't see why illegal immigrants should be given preferential treatment. Crime has consequences.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  And it was only one hysterectomy. [0] For cancer. Crying wolf like this does no one any good. 0: https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e

jariel 6y ago

Widespread conflict will get Trump elected, this is already proving the case as people see 'violence' instead of 'protesting' Trump is getting momentum. Don Lemon on CNN literally asking for people to calm down due to this fact. Edit: Trump's support grew consistently as public support for BLM waned in face of the 'perception of violence' [1] - which Trump's team sees and is why he's pushing a 'law and order' message. The risk of BLM is that 'empathy' will easily be overwhelmed by 'concern' if pictures of violence play out on their TV screens every night. People will always chose public order over almost anything else. [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/02/trump-black-lives-matter-poll-407227 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/02/trump-black-lives-m...

Trasmatta 6y ago
> this is already proving the case Except it doesn't seem like the violence and rioting so far has actually helped Trump: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-law-and-order-message-isnt-resonating-with-most-americans/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-law-and-order-me...
- jariel 6y ago
  Your reference doesn't support your point. Trump's 'Law and Justice' messaging may not be helping, but his approval ratings have improved as the protests have continued and none of the data in the article diminishes that. It doesn't surprise me that many people support Biden as the mostly likely to 'quell tensions' etc. - however - that's not the same thing as the instinctive response to seeing widespread violence on TV. Listen to Lemon [1]: "“It’s showing up in the polling. It’s showing up in focus groups. It is the only thing right now that is sticking,” Lemon said ahead of "CNN Tonight" on Tuesday. “The riots and the protests have become indistinguishable." This I believe. More directly from Nate Silver here [2] where he is unsure there is a correlation, but since that article, the meme has continued and Trump has drifted up for no other apparent reason along the same trend line. I don't like the man, the 'trend' is not good. Just a few weeks ago it looked like this would be over, now, there are many paths for him to come to win. A showdown over Ginsberg replacement may be the decisive battle. [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/media/513742-cnns-lemon-warns-of-democratic-blind-spot-on-riots-it-shows-up-in-the-polling https://thehill.com/homenews/media/513742-cnns-lemon-warns-o... [2] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/could-a-backlash-against-black-lives-matter-hurt-biden-the-two-dont-appear-linked-so-far/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/could-a-backlash-agains...