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I'm concerned about China's policy of heavy-handed protectionism and censorship internally while benefitting from global markets externally. But I don't like t

I'm concerned about China's policy of heavy-handed protectionism and censorship internally while benefitting from global markets externally. But I don't like this tit-for-tat action by the US. Cutting off Tiktok will only further accelerate the balkanization of the internet. Keeping US companies from kataoing to the Chinese regime with special concessions (e.g. Dragonfly) and making services too important to easily firewall off (e.g. GitHub) seems like a better strategy. At least I hope so.

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
> I'm concerned about China's policy of heavy-handed protectionism and censorship internally while benefitting from global markets externally. Foreign companies benefited enormously from the opening up of the Chinese market, and China is not nearly as protectionist as it's made out to be. Western media has trouble entering China because of political censorship, but Western businesses in general have very good market access. China is a very significant market for most major US tech companies.
- philliphaydon 6y ago
  Western business do not have good market access. Just look at what’s happened with Disney. Spend years and years censoring movies and gaining favour of the CCP to get access to the market and a single movie ends up destroying their reputation overnight.
  - whoevercares 6y ago
    Completely BS. When I was walking through shopping mall in Beijing, for a moment I thought I’m in New York, all western brands. What are you talking about?
    - philliphaydon 6y ago
      So you see some brands in china and that means that brand’s have 0 issues getting into china market? But ignoring that those brands can’t easily get the money they make out of china, they don’t own the subsidiary in china, and if china decides to boycott the brand, it actually means something compared to boycott in the west which is just something people say and don’t follow through on.
      - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        You don't just see "some brands" in China. They're everywhere, on a completely different scale than Chinese brands in the US. In practice, American companies have a much larger presence in China than vice versa. > they don’t own the subsidiary in china This is a common misconception. Foreign companies can own their subsidiaries in most sectors of the Chinese economy. > those brands can’t easily get the money they make out of china China has capital flow controls. Foreign companies are still able to expatriate their profits. Apple takes in about $45 billion in revenue per year in China, and there must be a hefty profit associated with that revenue. Do you think Apple's profits get trapped in China?
        philliphaydon 6y ago
        You cannot just start a WFOE business inm china. You can’t just take money out of china. Apple is a giant company with an insane amount of money to pay off whoever they need to.
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        > You cannot just start a WFOE business in china Nonsense. WFOEs are common in China. The acronym exists for a reason. > You can’t just take money out of china. There are several channels that companies can use to expatriate profits. > Apple is a giant company with an insane amount of money to pay off whoever they need to. They don't have to pay people off. There are completely legal methods for them to expatriate their profits.
        philliphaydon 6y ago
        I guess the 50c army is here on HN now trying to defend china. I’ll maintain my opinion from experience of working with people who were not allowed to setup a WFOE business and were forced to give 51% of the business away for the china subsidiary. It’s really strange how people can try defend china when it’s not china that’s the bad guy, it’s the ccp.
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    Disney made a crappy movie that Chinese audiences hated. They took a classic Chinese story and made a mess of it. How is that the Communist Party's fault? The revenues that Western companies generate in China speak for themselves. The image that many Westerners have, that China bars foreign businesses from entering its market, is so opposite from reality that it's difficult to even begin to respond. Just go to China and see for yourself how omnipresent foreign companies are. China's economic development was based on opening its markets to foreign investment.

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago

> I'm concerned about China's policy of heavy-handed protectionism and censorship internally while benefitting from global markets externally. Foreign companies benefited enormously from the opening up of the Chinese market, and China is not nearly as protectionist as it's made out to be. Western media has trouble entering China because of political censorship, but Western businesses in general have very good market access. China is a very significant market for most major US tech companies.

philliphaydon 6y ago
Western business do not have good market access. Just look at what’s happened with Disney. Spend years and years censoring movies and gaining favour of the CCP to get access to the market and a single movie ends up destroying their reputation overnight.
- whoevercares 6y ago
  Completely BS. When I was walking through shopping mall in Beijing, for a moment I thought I’m in New York, all western brands. What are you talking about?
  - philliphaydon 6y ago
    So you see some brands in china and that means that brand’s have 0 issues getting into china market? But ignoring that those brands can’t easily get the money they make out of china, they don’t own the subsidiary in china, and if china decides to boycott the brand, it actually means something compared to boycott in the west which is just something people say and don’t follow through on.
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      You don't just see "some brands" in China. They're everywhere, on a completely different scale than Chinese brands in the US. In practice, American companies have a much larger presence in China than vice versa. > they don’t own the subsidiary in china This is a common misconception. Foreign companies can own their subsidiaries in most sectors of the Chinese economy. > those brands can’t easily get the money they make out of china China has capital flow controls. Foreign companies are still able to expatriate their profits. Apple takes in about $45 billion in revenue per year in China, and there must be a hefty profit associated with that revenue. Do you think Apple's profits get trapped in China?
      - philliphaydon 6y ago
        You cannot just start a WFOE business inm china. You can’t just take money out of china. Apple is a giant company with an insane amount of money to pay off whoever they need to.
        DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
        > You cannot just start a WFOE business in china Nonsense. WFOEs are common in China. The acronym exists for a reason. > You can’t just take money out of china. There are several channels that companies can use to expatriate profits. > Apple is a giant company with an insane amount of money to pay off whoever they need to. They don't have to pay people off. There are completely legal methods for them to expatriate their profits.
        philliphaydon 6y ago
        I guess the 50c army is here on HN now trying to defend china. I’ll maintain my opinion from experience of working with people who were not allowed to setup a WFOE business and were forced to give 51% of the business away for the china subsidiary. It’s really strange how people can try defend china when it’s not china that’s the bad guy, it’s the ccp.
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  Disney made a crappy movie that Chinese audiences hated. They took a classic Chinese story and made a mess of it. How is that the Communist Party's fault? The revenues that Western companies generate in China speak for themselves. The image that many Westerners have, that China bars foreign businesses from entering its market, is so opposite from reality that it's difficult to even begin to respond. Just go to China and see for yourself how omnipresent foreign companies are. China's economic development was based on opening its markets to foreign investment.